Bad beat or bad play?

[leni]

Low buy in single table SNG, in the beginning stages (1.st lvl, as far as background: I had so far played one hand with which I had Player B bet into me lightly until showdown with the six he paired at the flop (no kicker) and which I won by pairing my ten at the river (Ace kicker) - not brilliant play there, more like luck and taking a calculated risk. Had no read on Player C.)

But the hand in question:
no drastic differences in stack size, I was bigstacked by a marginal amount, but not enough to make any kind of a difference, I think

I was dealt AcKd
Player B was dealt 7hJs
Player C (big blind) was dealt Jc5c

Preflop:
4 callers (including me) and check from BB (I was first in, middle pos, decided to see flop cheaply rather than raise - mistake?)

Flop:
9cKcTs

small blind checks, Player C bets 1/5th of pot I raise to double that, Player B calls, Player C calls

(should've raised higher here? have to say I wanted to, but I looked at the table late enough to have my time almost running out and I pressed the ready-made raise button because it was quick and I was scared of ticking out of time into auto-fold - probably stupid, because it doesn't take that much time to type in a number )

Turn:
Ad

Player C minbets, I raise to double that (again, with the ready-made amount, not sure what I was thinking there trying to slow play or sth? in retrospect - stupid, stupid, stupid), Player B and Player C call.

River:
Qd

So the community cards on the table are:
9cKcTsAdQd

I hold: AcKd
Player B holds: 7hJs
Player C holds: Jc5c

Player C bets 1/3rd of pot, I raise to doube that, Player B (about 1/3 stack size shortstacked compared to me, and slightly short compared to player C) goes all in, Player C calls, I shove, Player C calls.

And, of course, they both made the straight with their Js and beat my AAKK. I should have seen that straight coming from Player B? Calling to the draw and then going all in once he had it? What the hell was Player C doing raising on flop and turn with his J5 though? Should I have shoved or at least raised decently on flop and turn to keep them from going after the draw?

 

[raypie1234]

After the flop and turn the best move was a pot-size bet, because calling for a insight straightdraw was not enough.

 

[wislim]

Absloutley raise pre flop. As played raise more like3-3 1/2x the bet before u. If your called as it happend i agree a pot sized bet should give you the pot. If your called by the donk getting the wrong price your gonna win most all the time. When turn bet is called and the Q hits on the river he puts out a value bet just fold your beat. Bad plays by villians get rewarded.

 

[Jillychemung]

Raise preflop
Bet the flop

Both of these marginal hands were given the correct odds to keep drawing, especially the Jc5c hand. If you had raised preflop and bet the flop you'd take this hand down 95%+.

 

[WurlyQ]

Raise 4-5x bb preflop
Bet 2/3 - 3/4 of the pot post flop

 

[LizzyJ]

I would have raised 3XBB + 1BB for every limper. I would have tried to thin down the field so it's heads-up and shown strength. Maybe a big bet pre-flop would have taken the pot down. Be happy with that. The raises you made on flop and turn aren't going to scare anyone. If anything those are pot sweetners. If you would have raised 4X-6X, that would made them think twice. They want to draw, make it hurt. That flop is dangerous: flush draw, multiple straight draws. You need to end it quick and now let someone draw out. You made it very cheap for someone to draw.

 

[Cobryn]

I think you played this hand really poorly.

I'm raising preflop to 3x the big blind.

On the flop you have to repop that the entire size of the pot. He took a shot at the pot and you need to make him pay for a draw. Player C has a flush draw right off the bat and by not re-raising him (An adequate amount) on the flop you play right into his hands. Same scenario on the turn.

Player C was keeping you off of him (With min bets) and practically making himself odds to continue the hand.

You lost this hand because you played it extremely poorly. Will player C continue with a gutshot and a flush draw if you make him pay for it?

You'll never know... because he didnt have to pay for it.

 

[guitargarth]

I think not raising preflop with AK is a common problem that I've seen people who always want to trap, after that weak play let the others get there

 

[chukky88]

big raise preflop,bet after flop.like this is playing this hand i think...if you dont raise you let them to see flop with small cards and this is a problem...

 

[shinedown.45]

Low buy in single table SNG, in the beginning stages (1.st lvl, as far as background: I had so far played one hand with which I had Player B bet into me lightly until showdown with the six he paired at the flop (no kicker) and which I won by pairing my ten at the river (Ace kicker) - not brilliant play there, more like luck and taking a calculated risk. Had no read on Player C.)

But the hand in question:
no drastic differences in stack size, I was bigstacked by a marginal amount, but not enough to make any kind of a difference, I think

I was dealt AcKd
Player B was dealt 7hJs
Player C (big blind) was dealt Jc5c

Preflop:
4 callers (including me) and check from BB (I was first in, middle pos, decided to see flop cheaply rather than raise - mistake?)

Flop:
9cKcTs

small blind checks, Player C bets 1/5th of pot I raise to double that, Player B calls, Player C calls

(should've raised higher here? have to say I wanted to, but I looked at the table late enough to have my time almost running out and I pressed the ready-made raise button because it was quick and I was scared of ticking out of time into auto-fold - probably stupid, because it doesn't take that much time to type in a number )

Turn:
Ad

Player C minbets, I raise to double that (again, with the ready-made amount, not sure what I was thinking there trying to slow play or sth? in retrospect - stupid, stupid, stupid), Player B and Player C call.

River:
Qd

So the community cards on the table are:
9cKcTsAdQd

I hold: AcKd
Player B holds: 7hJs
Player C holds: Jc5c

Player C bets 1/3rd of pot, I raise to doube that, Player B (about 1/3 stack size shortstacked compared to me, and slightly short compared to player C) goes all in, Player C calls, I shove, Player C calls.

And, of course, they both made the straight with their Js and beat my AAKK. I should have seen that straight coming from Player B? Calling to the draw and then going all in once he had it? What the hell was Player C doing raising on flop and turn with his J5 though? Should I have shoved or at least raised decently on flop and turn to keep them from going after the draw?

AK is a hand alot of ppl have trouble playing from EP and I really don't see why, sure it's only Ace high but 9 times out of 10(not sure of exact odds here) you're flipping against any PP with the exception of AA and IMO, it's worth a 3-4xBB raise from any position.
Now you know my answer to your preflop question.
As for the flop, you already answered that yourself.
Use the clock next time, I always do when sizing my bets and raises if I need to.
as for doubling the other players bet, we call that min-raising, and as anybody will tell you:
Min-raising makes baby Jesus cry, so don't min-raise.

 

[tertip]

the bigest mistake was not to rasie pre-flop as the others says. its always to dangerus exiply when more players in the hand that the hit somethink but a rasie preflop let the other players fold craps, better to win a little bit as to lose.

 

[nykel88]

You should raise AK 1/3 of the time man. But with 2 people yah a raise would be good about 4x the bb. No wonder player c bets in the flop he is going to have a possible nut flush if any clubs comes out. That should have warn your A K hand that theres an straight draw and a flush draw coming. Anyone could have Q J, K J, J 2 suited if no one raises the preflop. On the turn I would be very careful when that A just came out coz everyone just called the bet it really possible someone is holding QJ if I was you in the table. Then the river i would have check and if they raise i would fold. Its just 2 pairs and you should that one of them should have the J. Its ok to fold high 2 pairs atleast you wont risk your stack. I'd say it was a bad play not bad luck. sorry man.

 

[cardsDontMatter]

A decision to raise AK or limp depends on your skill as a player, your reads, your image at the table, and so on.

The key to AK is not going broke with it .. it's also known as Big Sucker.

If you have enough chips to play poker, raise, c-bet and hope smack-tards know how to fold.

Raising is always better than calling, especially OOP, but your postlfop play out of position puts you in a difficult situation depending on how many callers you have, and I guarantee you, at low level, or high level games, EVERYONE puts you on AK... which is the reason, at this level, when you enter a pot, you raise.

Your callers, most likely will have a pocket pair if they don't re-raise, and just call, and if they have JJ-AA, they are re-popping you.

Limping, flatting are always options, but this is a positional play and if you're a good small-baller and can throw away hands that don't connect, you may actually save money if you engage action than always trying to ward if off.

 

[LizzyJ]

I think not raising preflop with AK is a common problem that I've seen people who always want to trap, after that weak play let the others get there

Setting traps is a complicated thing to do, you really need to know your players and have the right table conditions to pull it off. Traps can easily back-fire. I've learned that the expensive way. Maybe somewhere down the road when I have a handle on the basics I'll attempt to learn the art of trapping, but for right now....simple, straight-forward power house poker.

 

[spunka]

Opening a pot with a limp with AK is no good....

But you hit a king on the flop and someone bet 1/5 of the pot and you double that, what are you try to do with this ? I Think you're trying to trap him, so let's asume that for now.

Now a A pop on the turn and player C min. bet( he does that to keep the pot low as he's drawning) You hit your MONSTER but with a nasty draw out there, here you have to make you decision.

A do you think he has the straight NOW ? if so call / check

B do you think he's still drawing for the straight if so Take the pot now or make him pay for that last draw, so minimum bet is a bet of 75% of the pot.

River a Q now J is the nutter. AND YOUR HAND IS STONE DEAD, it's a clear fold now, that you don't hold the Jack, maybe a call for 1/10 of the pot just to see the hands of your opponents, but you should know you're beat.

 

[Pittsburgh]

Bad play...Not bad beat...And after two all-ins behind you you calling on that board with two top pairs...Bad play preflop,flop,turn and river...

 

[JoeDi]

you definitely should have assumed the straight with at least one of them once they both went all in.. i agree the play was too soft early and too stubborn on the river..

 

[STOPSNITCHING6]

i just told someone else the same thing with those kinda hands you want to see how powerfull or not powerfull the other players hands are pre-flop. raise to price where they just cant call you with that kinda hand J-5 and if someone does call your hefty bet you know they have a competing hand or if they re-raise you they have yes we all know AA or a high poket pair so dont let anyone see the flop for cheap if you ever play a hand even if your playing the J-5 remember aggressive poker is winning poker

 

[Yeti]

I agree with many of the posts here - not aggressive enough. At all. Raise it up.

 

[marble]

It looked as if you were trying to trap with your ak preflop,flop, and turn, then got stuck on the river (even though it should of been an easy fold). One thing with low buy-in is that you should remember to NOT trap especially vs two. yes it may work at times but play it straight forward and you will see results in the long run. as you move up in levels, than you can adjust your play.

 

[FereZ]

You played badly :/ You should do bet/raise preflop or just push all in with that hand.. And when the flop is like that, do a bet(Massive bet), dont give them free cards, i dont think that they are calling with stupid draws..
But that was bad beat aswell.

 

[DocHamer]

Low buy in single table SNG, in the beginning stages (1.st lvl, as far as background: I had so far played one hand with which I had Player B bet into me lightly until showdown with the six he paired at the flop (no kicker) and which I won by pairing my ten at the river (Ace kicker) - not brilliant play there, more like luck and taking a calculated risk. Had no read on Player C.)

But the hand in question:
no drastic differences in stack size, I was bigstacked by a marginal amount, but not enough to make any kind of a difference, I think

I was dealt AcKd
Player B was dealt 7hJs
Player C (big blind) was dealt Jc5c

Preflop:
4 callers (including me) and check from BB (I was first in, middle pos, decided to see flop cheaply rather than raise - mistake?)

Flop:
9cKcTs

small blind checks, Player C bets 1/5th of pot I raise to double that, Player B calls, Player C calls

(should've raised higher here? have to say I wanted to, but I looked at the table late enough to have my time almost running out and I pressed the ready-made raise button because it was quick and I was scared of ticking out of time into auto-fold - probably stupid, because it doesn't take that much time to type in a number )

Turn:
Ad

Player C minbets, I raise to double that (again, with the ready-made amount, not sure what I was thinking there trying to slow play or sth? in retrospect - stupid, stupid, stupid), Player B and Player C call.

River:
Qd

So the community cards on the table are:
9cKcTsAdQd

I hold: AcKd
Player B holds: 7hJs
Player C holds: Jc5c

Player C bets 1/3rd of pot, I raise to doube that, Player B (about 1/3 stack size shortstacked compared to me, and slightly short compared to player C) goes all in, Player C calls, I shove, Player C calls.

And, of course, they both made the straight with their Js and beat my AAKK. I should have seen that straight coming from Player B? Calling to the draw and then going all in once he had it? What the hell was Player C doing raising on flop and turn with his J5 though? Should I have shoved or at least raised decently on flop and turn to keep them from going after the draw?

you should have raised preflop substantial to get limpers like that out with bad hands.

Once they were on the flush draw with small bets it is hard to get donkeys out of the hand. Best to get them out preflop.

 

[DarkAceMafia]

It's unfortunate. I see that you didnt raise pre-flop. Especially with so many callers already. I truly beliee that this was the first domino that fell and lead to the actions and then the defeat. I will always raise my AK, or any great starting hands, because well i rather win a little then lose a lot.

 

[sld2]

If you would of raised preflop maybe 3xBB more than likely you are not being called by 7hJs and Jc5c. Plus on the flop you are laying player C the odds to call you. It should have been avoided by raising preflop. Ak is a flip against pocket pairs except AA and KK of course, but it still has a sizeable advantage against most hands. Plus if you are being called by a pocket pair most are not going to call a continuation bet without a set if overcards hit the board.

 

[wesmi]

Would say that is was a really bad play. I´m not so interested in pre-flop bets/raises, but this would have been the time and place to do so 2 x BB. And at least a 2 x pot raise after the flop. If someone would have taken the chance and beaten you after that, then we could be talking about a BadBeat.