AQd in the BB, limped pot...

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Just deposited at FT and this is my first SnG; villain has been playing fairly tight/passive like the rest of the table.

Can someone tell me wtf he's holding?
I'm thinking something like 99 that could be limped with, but maybe he saw my pot-bet as a steal and decided to take a stand :/ :confused:

Anyways my questions are:

What do you do PF?

Considering how I played it (called his PF reraise), do you call his flop push?



full tilt poker Game #1095269668: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (7441577), Table 1 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:47:08 ET - 2006/10/12
Seat 1: pokerdadof4 (2,250)
Seat 2: Ricktem (1,635)
Seat 3: ChuckTs (2,460)
Seat 4: KObyJD (1,305)
Seat 5: Rabid Llama (3,020)
Seat 6: sensi12002 (110)
Seat 8: dinosaurjr (770)
Seat 9: axs912 (1,950)
Ricktem posts the small blind of 20
ChuckTs posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Ad Qd]
KObyJD folds
Rabid Llama calls 40
sensi12002 has 15 seconds left to act
sensi12002 folds
dinosaurjr folds
axs912 folds
pokerdadof4 calls 40
Ricktem calls 20
ChuckTs raises to 200
Rabid Llama calls 160
pokerdadof4 folds
Ricktem has 15 seconds left to act
Ricktem raises to 600
ChuckTs calls 400
Rabid Llama folds
*** FLOP *** [5s Ts Qc]
Ricktem bets 1,035, and is all in
ChuckTs:...
 
D

Dingodaddy23

Guest
i think you're good here often enough to justify a call. The only hand I would be worried about is 10/10. I think his most likely holding is either 66-10/10, i mean, do people generally limp-raise like that without a pocket pair, I doubt he would be doing it with something like J10 spades which would give him a combo draw. 5/5 is also a slight possibility, but I think I make this call.
 
rotty

rotty

I triple dog dare ya
Awards
5
Flush draw would be my first thought. (beer thought):D
A-10 comes up to a couple of my sober brain cells though.:eek:
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
wtf he completes the SB then reraises? Some bizarre squeeze play variant?

I think he's probably a donk and his range is accordingly wide. If you're not going to call when pushed into after flopping tptk you may as well fold preflop though.

As played, call the flop push. I probably fold preflop to the reraise and sit on my stack for a while though. If the table is very loose/passive I may even check preflop and try and hit a flop cheaply - it's still early stages and I don't like getting too deeply involved with AQs in the early stages - especially if I've already built a decent stack.

Side note: I saw AA played exactly as Rickthingy played this. Limped into my BB with 2 limpers, I stick in a raise with JJ, fold-fold-reraise, I think he's full of crap and push, he turns AA up. Obviously it's a good play if you know the BB has a big hand too. >.>
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
Yep there's chance he has AA. I saw Eli Elezra do this on Poker Superstars with Doyle Brunson in late position / blinds (not sure which). Eli limps, Doyle raises with Q-8 sooted, Eli puts on a long acting performance and re-raises, Doyle falls for it hook line and sinker and goes all-in. And is out of the tournament. At least here you have a hand, but like Chris says you might be better off folding pre-flop.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Yep there's chance he has AA.

I'm actually kind of strongly thinking he has AA or KK here, which is weird since I'm not getting the vibe that many consider this a strong possibility. I don't think his range is all that wide, unless he's just a maniac. I figure he's got a good pocket pair or maybe something like AKs, and I put AA and KK at the front in my considerations. I'm not saying I don't call... in a single-table SnG, I call this; if I go busto at this stage, oh well, I didn't invest much time and I go on and play another one. In an MTT where survival is important, I would strongly consider laying this down.

But in $10 and $20 online SnG I see similar plays with KK or AA kind of often. It's not as though his all-in is a huge overbet that would suggest weakness. It's less than the pot and there's a flush draw and straight draw possibility on the board.

The thing is, as Dorkus mentioned, that he limped from the small blind, meaning that he only gets a chance to re-raise pre-flop if the big blind raises, and you just happened to have a very good hand in the BB. But I see plenty of online players who are perfectly content with limping in a multiway pot with AA or KK and trying to take a bunch of chips from someone who hits top pair, as dangerous as it is.
 
loopmeister

loopmeister

Rock Star
I think he's probably a donk and his range is accordingly wide. If you're not going to call when pushed into after flopping tptk you may as well fold preflop though.

Regarding calling the reraise, I'm not sure I could fold a top 10 hand for 200 more chips.

Let's assume he is a donk, as DM suggests. If I think back to my Donk days (all the way back to last Wednesday), I wouldn't push all-in unless I had something. I'm guessing he holds TT, 55 or QT for a two pair (and put his reraise down to donkishness). Either way, you're too far behind to call, right?

If he was "slowplaying" QQ, KK or AA you're still way behind.

If he's bluffing, or defacto bluffing due to cluelessness then well done to him. I fold here.
 
loopmeister

loopmeister

Rock Star
Ok, just realised the last call was for 400 chips, not 200.. I'd still call that... most of the time.
 
medeiros13

medeiros13

Rock Star
I think he actually has pocket 10's and just hit a set. If I were to guess his mindset, I'd say he wants to see a cheap flop, hence the call. Then once Chuck raises and he gets a call, he says: I don't want to play this 3 handed and reraises to try to get heads up. (which he's successful in doing) I think I'd lay this hand down but a call is certainly reasonable. You've got TPTK and you're getting about 2-1 pot odds to call...that's pretty good. Lately I've been subscribing to the big pot/big hand theory and TPTK wouldn't cut it for me. Letting the hand loose would keep you at about 2k chips which puts in mid to upper chip count in this SnG.
 
Lo-Dog

Lo-Dog

Cardschat Elite
Have you been stealing his blinds? If you have raised his blind a few times then he may have a big hand and was waiting for your raise. Thats what I would do if I had a good read that you would do the raising for me. Then the flop has a couple draws so its time to push and make you make a tough decision. If this is the case I would put him on KK or AA.

If not then I have no freakin idea what he is doing.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
(WEEEEEEEE multiquote)

i think you're good here often enough to justify a call. The only hand I would be worried about is 10/10. I think his most likely holding is either 66-10/10, i mean, do people generally limp-raise like that without a pocket pair, I doubt he would be doing it with something like J10 spades which would give him a combo draw. 5/5 is also a slight possibility, but I think I make this call.

He probably has something like 77 and missed the flop. Call.


That's exactly my line of thinking; the only thing I should really be scared of is a middle/low pair that hit it's set (right?)

I can also see AK/AQ/AJ trying to take control of what looks like a steal from me, if he's passive enough to limp into a pot with big aces like that.

wtf he completes the SB then reraises? Some bizarre squeeze play variant?

I think he's probably a donk and his range is accordingly wide. If you're not going to call when pushed into after flopping tptk you may as well fold preflop though.

Agreed.

As played, call the flop push. I probably fold preflop to the reraise and sit on my stack for a while though. If the table is very loose/passive I may even check preflop and try and hit a flop cheaply - it's still early stages and I don't like getting too deeply involved with AQs in the early stages - especially if I've already built a decent stack.

I considered checking, but I hate being that passive. As for me calling his PF raise, I'm getting 2.5:1 odds with position and a strong hand (also against a really weird raise which I think is a resteal). I think it's an easy call, but AQ is called a trouble hand for a reason...

Yep there's chance he has AA. I saw Eli Elezra do this on Poker Superstars with Doyle Brunson in late position / blinds (not sure which). Eli limps, Doyle raises with Q-8 sooted, Eli puts on a long acting performance and re-raises, Doyle falls for it hook line and sinker and goes all-in. And is out of the tournament. At least here you have a hand, but like Chris says you might be better off folding pre-flop.

This is a completely different situation. Eli definitely had a read that Doyle was going to raise (as he so often does) and wanted to make a very weird trap. I had only played one pot in which I raised UTG with JJ, hit a set and bet it to the river (and won). I was playing TAG (as I always do in the early stages), and had only played one hand. He had little to no reason to think I'd raise the limpers.

I'm actually kind of strongly thinking he has AA or KK here, which is weird since I'm not getting the vibe that many consider this a strong possibility. I don't think his range is all that wide, unless he's just a maniac. I figure he's got a good pocket pair or maybe something like AKs, and I put AA and KK at the front in my considerations. Why? He's limped into a multiway pot with only 1 to act behind him PF...people generally don't limp with AA/KK :confused: I'm not saying I don't call... in a single-table SnG, I call this; if I go busto at this stage, oh well, I didn't invest much time and I go on and play another one. In an MTT where survival is important, I would strongly consider laying this down.

But in $10 and $20 online SnG I see similar plays with KK or AA kind of often. It's not as though his all-in is a huge overbet that would suggest weakness. It's less than the pot and there's a flush draw and straight draw possibility on the board.

The thing is, as Dorkus mentioned, that he limped from the small blind, meaning that he only gets a chance to re-raise pre-flop if the big blind raises, and you just happened to have a very good hand in the BB. But I see plenty of online players who are perfectly content with limping in a multiway pot with AA or KK and trying to take a bunch of chips from someone who hits top pair, as dangerous as it is. Where the hell do you play? ;) I rarely come across someone passive enough to limp into a pot with AA/KK/QQ. Once in a while, of course people try to limp-raise with 'em, but that's a whole different monster.

See bold

Have you been stealing his blinds? If you have raised his blind a few times then he may have a big hand and was waiting for your raise. Thats what I would do if I had a good read that you would do the raising for me. Then the flop has a couple draws so its time to push and make you make a tough decision. If this is the case I would put him on KK or AA.

If not then I have no freakin idea what he is doing.

His actions would be 10X more justifiable had I been a maniacal LAG player, but as I said, I only played one pot in which I won with JJ. I folded every other hand. If anything, my image should be super-tight/semi-aggressive.

I find it really strange that more than one of you mentioned AA/KK; though of course anything is possible when playing vs. random donks...

Disregarding the results, I think that I'm ahead like %85+ of the time here, with my opponent most likely holding a middle pair.

Results (sorry, couldn't find the HH) were that he did actually have KK...
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Yeah, I know he's limped, which is weird in the small blind, but at party poker and Full Tilt, at low blind levels, I do see this. They think "well, the blinds are really low and if I raise and just take them I get no chippies!" so they get greedy and hope their hidden overpair de-stacks a TPTK (which, well, actually worked this time, but is of course unnecessarily dangerous). And there was still the chance you would raise after him.

I've seen this every now and then with KK especially, because they don't mind getting in cheaply, seeing if an A hits the board, and if not, possibly making a lot of chips from top pair. I'm not saying any of this is smart, it's just what some people try to do.

Yeah he limped, but he also re-raised a 5xBB raise after one player called it when he got the chance and practically knew that he'd get action from at least one of you on his raise. The sequence of events suggest to me that the guy's probably a fish with a premium hand. I've just rarely seen a limp re-raise of that size at this stage of an SnG, especially with a caller of the initial raise, without the other guy ending up having a big hand. He wasn't trying to get both of you to fold. He wanted action.
 
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