AQ suited, low rainbow flop

bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Villian has been playing wide range of hands.

pokerstars Game #8575993925: Tournament #43327292, $0.25+$0.00 Hold'em
No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/02/22 - 22:41:16 (ET)
Table '43327292 219' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: kashpit (1335 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: BoisestateU (4960 in chips)
Seat 3: freash21 (4550 in chips)
Seat 4: klitkat (5265 in chips)
Seat 5: kerrig (610 in chips)
Seat 6: ryansrun (4845 in chips)
Seat 7: masterswab (1920 in chips)
Seat 8: NoneeT (1095 in chips)
Seat 9: triplev5 (1810 in chips)
klitkat: posts small blind 25
kerrig: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to klitkat [Ac Qc]
ryansrun: calls 50
masterswab: folds
NoneeT: folds
triplev5: folds
kashpit: folds
BoisestateU: folds
freash21: raises 50 to 100
klitkat: raises 150 to 250
kerrig: folds
ryansrun: calls 200
freash21: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [2d 8c Jh]
klitkat: bets 450
ryansrun: folds
freash21: calls 450
*** TURN *** [2d 8c Jh] [Tc]
klitkat: bets 450
freash21: raises 450 to 900
klitkat: ?

I have two overcards ,a flush draw , and a straight draw. I figured I had something like 17 outs on this hand. I wasn't sure of the pot odds but I thought they were something in line with 5-1 to call his raise. If he had AA, KK, or Js I would have expected a larger raise from him. I put him on something like A8.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

Legend
If you have 17 outs, you're about 1 in 3 to hit, so you can call up to a pot sized bet. Just call and see if you can hit your draw.

I don't think you can count Aces and Queens as outs though, so more realistically it's 9 clubs plus 3 more Kings. You're about 25% to hit so can call up to a half-pot bet. i.e. you easily have odds to call here. Make sure you don't give implied odds though by paying him on the river if you miss.
 
Shoestringx

Shoestringx

Guest
If you have 17 outs, you're about 1 in 3 to hit, so you can call up to a pot sized bet. Just call and see if you can hit your draw.

I don't think you can count Aces and Queens as outs though, so more realistically it's 9 clubs plus 3 more Kings. You're about 25% to hit so can call up to a half-pot bet. i.e. you easily have odds to call here. Make sure you don't give implied odds though by paying him on the river if you miss.

You could probably count the 3 other 9's as outs though, that would give the Q high straight. So that would be 15 outs, again a pot sized bet or smaller and I would call.
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
klitkat: calls 450
*** RIVER *** [2d 8c Jh Tc] 9♠
klitkat: bets 1000
freash21: raises 1950 to 2950 and is all-in
klitkat...?

I've got my straight and still have a flush draw. His bet gives me pause.
 
Vintage82

Vintage82

Guest
klitkat: calls 450
*** RIVER *** [2d 8c Jh Tc] 9♠
klitkat: bets 1000
freash21: raises 1950 to 2950 and is all-in
klitkat...?

I've got my straight and still have a flush draw. His bet gives me pause.

Still have a flush draw? How many more cards are you expecting to see? ;)

Call. Only beaten by KQ, and its a very strangely played hand if thats what he's holding.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
My guess???

He is holding 9 10, or he is on a smaller flush draw, or he has TPTK, or 2 pair.

My feeling is that is what he has, IMO, is in the above order. Basically, u r ahead!!! Only hand that can beat u is KQ. If he has KQ gl to him :)

The only thing I don`t agree with is Vintage82 comment, `Only beaten by KQ, and its a very strangely played hand if thats what he's holding.` I am not saying the comment is wrong, I`m more so thinking in a $0.25 buy in tourney, I`m not sure u r going to come up against many players who will play near to or by the book ;) , so getting this kind or read, IMO, is near impossible. Having said that, I`m not always right :D
 
Vintage82

Vintage82

Guest
I meant it was extremely strange in that he min raised preflop (building the pot?) Called a flop bet, raised the turn, then pushed river. Raising is obviously indicating some strength.

A low buy-in might not be of the best quality, but twice he's raised and now pushed. I'm thinking he may be on J10, QJ, or may have hit trips. At worst i'm expecting to split this pot.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
I meant it was extremely strange in that he min raised preflop (building the pot?) Called a flop bet, raised the turn, then pushed river. Raising is obviously indicating some strength.

A low buy-in might not be of the best quality, but twice he's raised and now pushed. I'm thinking he may be on J10, QJ, or may have hit trips. At worst i'm expecting to split this pot.

I agree !!! The point I`m making is that in lower limits u will find a player who hits top pair on the flop will never lay down the hand. They seem to think, for some stragne reason, that someone with the nuts will lay down their hand if someone goes allin. Its almost like they make a decision after the flop hits and that is that!!!

I still think the guy in this case had 9 10 !!!
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
*** RIVER *** [2d 8c Jh Tc] [9s]
klitkat: bets 1000
freash21: raises 1950 to 2950 and is all-in
klitkat: calls 1950
*** SHOW DOWN ***
freash21: shows [Kd Qh] (a straight, Nine to King):eek:
klitkat: shows [Ac Qc] (a straight, Eight to Queen):(
freash21 collected 9400 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9400 | Rake 0
Board [2d 8c Jh Tc 9s]
Seat 1: kashpit folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: BoisestateU folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: freash21 (button) showed [Kd Qh] and won (9400) with a straight,
Nine to King
Seat 4: klitkat (small blind) showed [Ac Qc] and lost with a straight,
Eight to Queen
Seat 5: kerrig (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: ryansrun folded on the Flop
Seat 7: masterswab folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: NoneeT folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: triplev5 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Sometimes the cards just bite ya in the ass.
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

I'm confused
I hate to say it but I think this was a fold on the flop. You had to catch 2 cards to get a straight or flush and you had no way of knowing if you catch your A or Q if it's still good. I agree after the turn you have to go with it but a fold with ace high and no real draws after the flop seems to me to be a more reasonable option. Discounting what villan actually had, there was a good chance you were behind here and chasing.

Seriously, I thought this before I saw the results.
 
TheRifle

TheRifle

Guest
Assuming villain is not a maniac, he has called your hefty raise pre-flop so should have a reasonable but not premium hand so mid pocket pairs, two suited high connectors - not putting you all in pre-flop rules out the higher pairs (QQ up)

I think villain must have some part of the flop to stay with you but not something exceptional otherwise should re-raises. Rules out JJ,88 but favours 10,9 or JQ to JA or A8, or he is playing a long shot (AK or the like). No way he's called pre-flop with 10,9 so this should be ruled out.

With the 10, he does re-raise this indicates that the 10 has helped make his hand so Q9, J10 or 1010. But the first two are illogical given the pre-flop betting. He could be loading the pot on a draw but that does make him a maniac - he should be checking here as I don't think you're folding. J plus high card are still possibilities - JQ - might be favourite.

Right with the 9s, villain is all-in and knows you are going to call. You've led this all the way and it would cripple you to fold. Why would he do this? Well first he pegs you for a high J (AJs or AJ) - can't see him putting you on KQ - so this puts him on JQs or possibly 1010(mad) but JQs is a major pre-flop stretch.

If you're going to tell me you met KQ here then I will say you met a maniac. The same applies if villain has been slow playing AA, KK or QQ or is making some wacky last saloon AK play.

In any case villain's betting is fairly strange.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
For what its worth, I think anyone can find fault after looking at the hand for 24hrs then seeing what happened, then giving advice.

I think u did the right thing on the flop, u bet to see where u were, u got called.

On turn u caught your flush and straight draw, so again, IMO, u were right to raise again, keep the pressure on.

WHen he eventually goes all in, there are only the KQ that can beat u, so I think its worth the call.

The truth is, the other guy had no reason to call your raises until the turn. If you are going to fold everytime a fish calls your raise u wanna give up!!!

I think u played the hand well and the worst thing that could happen on the river happened - u got the card that gave u almost the nuts, the fish caught the card that gave him the nuts. Can`t do much about that ;)
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

I'm confused
I agree Renaldo, but still, I see very often AK AQ losing big pots by making continuation bets after the flop. I know it's usually a good idea and often you can take the pot right there but on the other hand people love to slow play online so if villan has postition and hits his hand and hero is making bets then he's just going to call (I believe the term is called walking the dog). It's why missed AK AQ hands are hard to play, especially out of position.

I did read the thread when she first posted it and had the same opinion but didn't have time to post then. MY opinion is the same regaurdless of villans hand or the outcome. On the flop she had ace high with no real draw (except a draw to a draw), I think you want to keep the pot small here. Even if you check/fold here and it turns out to be a bluff at least you didn't lose a ton of chips with ace high. Plus the chances are good that you are behind with that flop a bet is more likely a made hand than a bluff.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
On the flop she had ace high with no real draw (except a draw to a draw), I think you want to keep the pot small here. Even if you check/fold here and it turns out to be a bluff at least you didn't lose a ton of chips with ace high. Plus the chances are good that you are behind with that flop a bet is more likely a made hand than a bluff.

I suppose it depends on how aggressive u r. I am trying to raise my aggression, and I would have bet the flop. But, having said that, your approach, on this occassion, would have saved some chips. U have to agree Snake, the other guy should have folded the flop bet?
 
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