AKo in cutoff vs 2 all ins late in tourney

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BigXerxes

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This was with 20 players left out of a 1500 starting field of a $109 buyin online MTT. Typical payout structure.. 14-17 getting 8 buy ins, 11-13 getting 10 buy ins. 240 buy ins for first.

Hero is in 2nd or 3rd in chips overall with 38 BB’s.

Folds around to LJ who jams 12 BB’s
HJ rejams 16 BB’s
Hero in cutoff Rejams with AKo
(BTN and blinds are handily covered)

LJ has AQo
HJ has QQ

Is the proper play to fold here? QQ holds leaving hero with 20 BBs.
 
hobojim1247

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With 2 shoves already in the pot I would muck and conserve my stack. Especially when I would still have a 40% bigger stack than the winner. NOW facing only one shove I would go all in to keep following hands from calling and complicating the hand for me.
 
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BigXerxes

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With 2 shoves already in the pot I would muck and conserve my stack. Especially when I would still have a 40% bigger stack than the winner. NOW facing only one shove I would go all in to keep following hands from calling and complicating the hand for me.
Makes sense to me. What are you doing with AKs and QQ here?
 
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Recreationalplayer

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HJ reshove means strength. I would have folded.
Not sure what ICMizer has to stay on this.

Even if AKo is allin, I don't think it's a very high EV play.
 
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BigXerxes

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HJ reshove means strength. I would have folded.
Not sure what ICMizer has to stay on this.

Even if AKo is allin, I don't think it's a very high EV play.
Yeah at least reasonable strength. One argument for reshove (as I try to justify it to myself) is that the structure is fast especially at this level. With 10 minute levels and big increases so that my close to 40 bigs is only 30 bigs next level and 20 after that. Would that make us more inclined to take the spot even if it is just slightly +ev?
 
kon44

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I feel for you as in that spot you could have easily have spiked an A or a K. I tend to when im that late in only look to increase my stack through aggression through my large chip stack. The re-shove from the HJ would have had me folding that AKo more times than not especially as it’s more than 20% my stack. Have to ask yourself if the hit to your stack will be critical or not.
 
xOneCoolHandx

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This was with 20 players left out of a 1500 starting field of a $109 buyin online MTT. Typical payout structure.. 14-17 getting 8 buy ins, 11-13 getting 10 buy ins. 240 buy ins for first.

Hero is in 2nd or 3rd in chips overall with 38 BB’s.

Folds around to LJ who jams 12 BB’s
HJ rejams 16 BB’s
Hero in cutoff Rejams with AKo
(BTN and blinds are handily covered)

LJ has AQo
HJ has QQ

Is the proper play to fold here? QQ holds leaving hero with 20 BBs.
I think this is a pretty close spot here. First of all, you are putting 16 BBs to win a pot that will be 47 BBs when you make the call .This means you need better than 34% equity to make this a profitable call. To better understand the spot, you can't think about the exact hands that the other players played in this particular hand, but the ranges that were likely in play for these players. If you look at the positions, the LJ is going to be jamming 33+, QJo+, KTo+, A9o+, A3s+, K9s+. Q9s+, J9s+...depending on the player type, some will jam wider, some will jam tighter. Another consideration as to the range of this player is how often is he jamming and is this the type of player that is jamming to take advantage of the fact that you are close to the bubble. Against this range, you are getting 53% equity and you should always make the call.

BUT, the HJ is a different story. The HJ is re-jamming with 66+, AJo+, KQ+ and ATs+...again, depending on the player type. We have all seen players rejam hands like JTs or call off with 65s in situations like this. But, maybe this player is tighter because of the bubble and is only re-jamming with TT+, AJo+ and ATs+. Even then, AK has slightly more than 38% equity against that range so this would be a call as well.

The problems though are that if you call and lose, you are down to 22 BBs with 2 left to the money and the other player that won the pot is going to have a sizable lead on you. But, overall you are getting the right odds vs both the actual hands that were played and you are getting somewhere between 32 and 37% against their whole range. I think this justifies your re-shove. However, I don't think that I have a problem with you folding this spot either, especially if you had given any reads that either of these players were on the tighter side.
 
kaynbergo

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If my stack covered my opponents, I would go all, AK still needs to be caught, and you already had a good pair
 
kon44

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Luvepoker

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Without knowing the other players and you read on them its not possible to give the best answer here. We need to consider the ranges here especially the 3 bets range. Unless I have them as a very tight players I would not be to quick to fold here. I cant blame you for folding here but winning this hand will give us a great opportunity to win the whole tournament.
 
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If you play stakes this high, you really should invest in a subscription for ICMizer, so you can learn the GTO ranges for spots like this. Anyways I plugged the hand in for you assuming a standard pokerstars payout structure (they are fairly similar across sites) and an average stack size of 25BB for the remaining players. Here is the result:

LJ jamming range: 17% of hands
HJ overjamming range: 5,5% of hands
Hero overjamming range: 2,1% of hands - JJ+, AKs

So AKo is actually a fold here at equilibrium, but AKs would be a call. Its not like, its a massive mistake though. AKo loses you 0,04% of the price pool assuming a 900 player starting field, whereas AKs would gain you 0,04% of the price pool. So if you had HUD-data or reads telling you, that HJ was a bit of a wild player, then this was sort of ok. But without such info the default is to fold, and you made a small mistake by getting it with AKo against these two jams. The key problem is, that HJs range is much more snug, because he dont have fold equity.
 
eetenor

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Yeah at least reasonable strength. One argument for reshove (as I try to justify it to myself) is that the structure is fast especially at this level. With 10 minute levels and big increases so that my close to 40 bigs is only 30 bigs next level and 20 after that. Would that make us more inclined to take the spot even if it is just slightly +ev?
No it does not cause us to be more inclined to take the spot----Yes our stack is getting smaller but other players have less than us and players are being knocked out laddering us up- It is our stack ratio to the field's that makes the difference on taking spots or not-not the number of bb's in our stack
 
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eetenor

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The first two hands are great examples of $2 players compared to a$109---Villains ranges are way too wide for shoves and calling off shoves so we would not fold AK0 or even AJs that often

Kon44 you may want to study bet sizing vs full range of V in the last two hands
 
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