AKo - comments.

F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Hi.

I'd like to see more discussion on hands, and encourage more reasoning. I'm not out to get expert advice, primarily, but I want as many people as possible to say how they would have played this hand, and why. Then, in turn, more experienced (or less, for that matter) players will be able to spot flaws or clever reasoning in the feedback. Posting your thoughts is, in other words, a way to get others to criticize (and thereby hopefully improve) your own game.

Starting out, here's a hand from a microlimit table a few months back. This was shortly after I sat down, so no reads on anyone.

pokerstars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K♥, A♣. MP3 posts a blind of $0.07.
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 (poster) calls, 3 folds, BB calls.
Flop: (6.80 SB) 2♠, 4♠, 8♦ (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, BB folds.
Turn: (4.40 BB) 10♦ (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.
River: (6.40 BB) 9♠ (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero folds.
Final Pot: 9.40 BB

Let me have it.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Well FP I play AKo very differently in limit vs no-limit. Ok fair enough its micro-limit play, but what did you figure your opponent for ? The spade had you beat on the river, but i dont think you could have done anything differently, maybe a check/call on the river, if only to see what he was calling pre-flop raises with ? Would have been the same price.

Im at the same thing trying to learn about differnent hands , posted about KQo yesterday. Now i played AKo very differently last night against a 3xbb raise by Dook which i smooth called with the intention of re-raising on the flop if an ace came. Usually id rereaise here but i figured if i did hit my hand would be well disguised.

Anyway not sure of the exact cards but the Ace came down, Dook played out, then it went pear shaped and Shel re-raised (wtf ? I was supposed to do that) 2 pair ? Any i had to drop off the hand as did Dook. But there is different ways of playing hands eapecially if its raised in front of you.
 
IrishDave

IrishDave

A Member
I'm probably more conservative than most but I'll generally push the standard 4xBB raise with A-K. If I don't improve on the flop, I'm also very quick to lay it down. I know that ace high can and does win pots, but unless I'm short-stacked or bullying a tight table I generally will not push hard with an A-K that has not improved on the flop...
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Well Dave the one thing i have to say is that when you raise with AKo and the flop is rags, you have to throw out a continuation bet to see where you stand, expecially if you have isolated one player. There is a strong likelyhood your up against AQ-Ax, or 2 face cards. If you get any action back at you by all means drop it.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Trying to decide the range of hands he might be playing is near impossible in the first few hands at a micro limit table. He could be sitting on 62s, and decide that it's worth seeing the turn with. I played around today with trying to figure out such a range, but it simply gets too big. At these limits, I've seen players call preflop raises with anything-suited, and... Oh boy. There are easily 500 hands he might decide to play preflop. And, sadly, he'd probably continue with the majority of these to the turn.

I didn't have the odds to bet on the river, I don't think (which is a correct move only if he has a better hand than me but folds or has a worse hand than me and calls, one time out of 6*), but the flop bet looks alright to me. At the turn, I could either check, which is bad if he's on a draw, or bet which is bad if he has me beat already.

In retrospect, check-folding is perhaps the way I should have played it on the river. I just don't like opening myself up to a bluff that I have to fold to, and I also prefer being the aggressor rather than the slapped-around-one.

... Of course, it's not at all impossible that I *did* get bluffed.

* It's unlikely that he'll have a better hand than me and fold it. He might not call with a pair of deuces, 6-kicker, but almost any other hand he would. And there are very few hands that are worse than mine that he would call a river bet with (and not three-bet preflop with).
 
C

chicubs1616

Guest
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K♥, A♣. MP3 posts a blind of $0.07.
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 (poster) calls, 3 folds, BB calls.
Flop: (6.80 SB) 2♠, 4♠, 8♦ (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, BB folds.
Turn: (4.40 BB) 10♦ (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.
River: (6.40 BB) 9♠ (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero folds.
Final Pot: 9.40 BB


Ok, your preflop raise is standard. AK is a hand that should always be raised or 3-betted preflop.

Your bet on the flop is fine, the board is all low cards and most of the time people will miss this flop if they have an unmade hand.

With your opponent calling your flop bet, I check the turn unimproved. If he bets, you must make a judgement call if you are still ahead. In my experience when I played at the .05/.10 limit, generally if an opponent bets here you are behind to a pair or a flush/straight draw at the very least.

So after check/calling or getting a free card on the turn we get to the river...

The spade is scary out there, I DO NOT like a bet here. You were probably trying to represent the flush, but his raise makes it seem fairly obvious that he has hit the flush. I check/fold to any bet here if I don't spike an A or K (A or K of spades worries me a lot here.)

I most likely put your opponent on a spade flush at the end of the hand. His calling down bets on the flop and turn with a four flush is a fairly basic play that opponents make at this level. His show of strength on the river tells me that he hit his hand (most likely a flush).

So, preflop and flop you are OK. I check the turn and maybe call a bet, and I definately check the river and fold to a bet...
 
Crippler450

Crippler450

Guest
I dont think you made any big mistakes. More often than not, that flop will not help the other 1 or 2 people in the pot, and you will take it down. You also have to bet on the turn and the river in some cases in case your opponent is chasing 2 pair or a straight draw. It could have been better to give up after the raise on the flop, but I dont think you messed up really.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Preflop fine, flop fine, check/fold the turn, certainly check/fold the river as most draws MP3 could have been calling with have hit (spades, straight).

This is micro limit, and he's already invested a BB and an SB before the cards are dealt. He could have absolutely anything. Without any reads it's hard to put him on a draw or a made hand, so I don't think you lose any value in the long run by ditching AK to a turn bet from him, because the possibility he has a draw and it will hit coupled with the possibility he has a made hand and you're drawing to 6 outs is most likely higher that the probability of a good outcome for you. If he checks behind on the turn, you can be a bit more confident that he's drawing and play the river accordingly.

If he has a made hand, say top pair average kicker or even a lower pair, the river 9 isn't going to make him ditch it, and if he has a draw then it's probably hit on the river and you'll get raised, so there is absolutely no point in betting the river.
 
X

xdmanx007

Legend
AK needs to get as much money in the pot preflop as you can so that when it does hit you recoup the loses from it not hitting. Most people play AK fairly well early in the hand but they outright refuse to let it go when they are beat. AK is a profitable hand but it is still usually a drawing hand. Play it aggressively early but you MUST learn to lay it down when your opponent in showing major resistance to folding.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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And how not to play it .............

PokerStars Game #2954874959: Tournament #14583615, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/11/02 - 14:45:58 (ET)
Table '14583615 2' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: ozmosis (1360 in chips)
Seat 2: king9ball (1400 in chips)
Seat 3: AAeddieAA (1460 in chips)
Seat 4: misfit16 (1420 in chips)
Seat 5: dow84me (2080 in chips)
Seat 6: FKNDONK (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: dpd11 (1440 in chips)
Seat 8: tenbob (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: LewisSand (1340 in chips)
dow84me: posts small blind 10
FKNDONK: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tenbob [Qd 4s]
dpd11: folds
tenbob: folds
LewisSand: calls 20
ozmosis: folds
king9ball: folds
AAeddieAA: folds
misfit16: calls 20
dow84me: calls 10
FKNDONK: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ks Ts Th]
dow84me: checks
FKNDONK: checks
LewisSand: checks
misfit16: bets 120
dow84me: folds
FKNDONK: folds
LewisSand: calls 120
*** TURN *** [Ks Ts Th] [4d]
LewisSand: checks
misfit16: bets 160
LewisSand: calls 160
*** RIVER *** [Ks Ts Th 4d] [As]
tenbob is disconnected
LewisSand: checks
misfit16: bets 1120 and is all-in
tenbob is connected
LewisSand: calls 1040 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
misfit16: shows [Ah Kd] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
LewisSand: shows [7s 5s] (a flush, Ace high)
LewisSand collected 2720 from pot
misfit16 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2720 | Rake 0
Board [Ks Ts Th 4d As]
Seat 1: ozmosis folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: king9ball folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: AAeddieAA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: misfit16 (button) showed [Ah Kd] and lost with two pair, Aces and Kings
Seat 5: dow84me (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: FKNDONK (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: dpd11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: tenbob folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: LewisSand showed [7s 5s] and won (2720) with a flush, Ace high
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Food for thought: How do you feel about check (with the intention of checkraising) with AKo on this particular flop? Disregard the actual outcome (let's not be results-oriented) and give me your thoughts about what that might accomplish (or cost).
 
X

xdmanx007

Legend
Yeah tenbob guy made 2 huge mistakes limping and then overplaying it post flop. Smooth calling with tens on the board should have screamed at the guy to put the brakes on. and ESPECIALLY when the flush hit ... A check raise on the flop not likely doubtful his opponent would have bet the flush draw. I probably would have bet the flop and then checked the turn with the intention of releasing the hand unless I KNEW my opponent was on a draw.
 
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