AA raise UTG (250/500) 3 callers..

[Poker Orifice]

Full Tilt Poker Game #22490249961: Super Stack $10K Guarantee (173486510), Table 131 - 250/500 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:13 ET - Wed, July 21, 2010
Seat 1: gabrielfelipe (37,032)
Seat 2: GottaRaiseYa (15,534)
Seat 3: SmokingCards (17,660)
Seat 4: DeepchapChopra (22,109)
Seat 5: Salas_42 (10,640)
Seat 6: Jack Harry (9,592)
Seat 7: i shall Prevail (48,611)
Seat 8: horoz1 (17,445)
Seat 9: a_c_a_beautiful (29,854)
gabrielfelipe antes 50
GottaRaiseYa antes 50
SmokingCards antes 50
DeepchapChopra antes 50
Salas_42 antes 50
Jack Harry antes 50
i shall Prevail antes 50
horoz1 antes 50
a_c_a_beautiful antes 50
GottaRaiseYa posts the small blind of 250
SmokingCards posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DeepchapChopra [Ah Ac]
DeepchapChopra raises to 1,299
Salas_42 folds
Jack Harry folds
i shall Prevail has 15 seconds left to act
i shall Prevail calls 1,299
horoz1 calls 1,299
a_c_a_beautiful folds
gabrielfelipe folds
GottaRaiseYa calls 1,049
SmokingCards folds
*** FLOP *** [Jh 7d Kh]
GottaRaiseYa checks
DeepchapChopra bets 3,299
i shall Prevail has 15 seconds left to act
i shall Prevail calls 3,299
horoz1 folds
GottaRaiseYa raises to 14,185, and is all in
DeepchapChopra has 15 seconds left to act
DeepchapChopra has requested TIME
DeepchapChopra ...?????

Now what?
A bit stressd at the time & bubble situation on other tables, knocks on my door (work related) telephone ringing... I didn't put alot of thought into the hand at the time (ie. how much equity I'd figure to have here vs. their ranges, & not too used to doin' a head calc. in multiway pots.. hu no problem.. but multiway... idk..).
So.. what do you do?

(what I did I will post shortly... along with the result. Don't think I'm posting this hand only or because of taking a beat here... just wondering what you would do.. & why?)

 

[Poker Orifice]

Oh.. I guess some player reads might help a bit too... lol.

i shall Prevail... TAG, played ~1300 mtt's, losing plyr.. (roi-8%, avg buyin $12)... not shy to put the pile in, playing a fair amount of hands (hadn't been on this table for that long really... but long enough to know he hadn't gotten out of line before now).

MP player.. who also flatted pre, although doesn't matter much as they folded on the flop.. but.. "looseCallingstation" some really bizarre plays, never raised unless on a monster but would calldown pretty light (they've made some weird preflop calls & calling down on river with really weak... doesn't seem capable of reading the board... obv doesn't think beyond Lev1).

GottaRaiseYa ... TAG.. over 1200 mtts played, losing player roi-32% avg. buyin $25, down ~$10k... in SNGs, ranked an A**** by one of the sites, but not the greatest results at all in nlhe sng's.. actually kinda bad.
Recent hands... w 14bb he raised in HJ... BB (lag) 3bets.. he 4bets ai w No FE (obv) with 55 and takes it down 55>33
previous hand vs. me.. I raise UTG1 he defend BB w 22bb stack, c/F KJX flop. In other words.. I haven't seen much to think he's getting out of line at all.

Oh yah.. & my image at the time... nothing out of typical stuff.. raise, c-bet & take it down.. 3bet in LP & have raiser fold, steal blinds a few times in LP, some BvB stuff but never spewing or getting out of line. (maybe my image doesn't matter?)

 

[FatBasset]

I would fold. He could easily have Two pair or set considering the pot odds he was getting to call pre-flop. The only scenario I think you beat is a squeeze play bluff.

 

[natsgrampy]

Tough one! Here's my feeble attempt at giving advice? I would call this one. My guess is the others will fold to the All in raise. I would put the player raising all in, with a flush draw, having Ah,Qh. If he had hit trip kings he would probably have just called your raise and tried to get more money in the pot. The shove seems more like an effort to get everyone else out of the hand.

 

[TopDonk]

i would fold...I mean hes crai multiway on very draw heavy board. He never does this with on pair hands...obv

So he has huge draw or already has u beat, I mean do u really wanna be up against a big flush/straight combo draw here at best?

We have a decent stack, I think anything over than folding is pretty bad here.

 

[AtiFCOD]

I think you had plenty of time if you could print raises like 1299, 3299...

I guess they had you. At least one of them had 2 pairs or set, possibility of flush draw was also high.

 

[Elie_Yammine]

the first one I'm not really worried about, he might be on a draw(maybe QT?)...But the second one is a real bugger! He called the PF raise, you raised on the flop, you got a call, granted he has position, but he just goes all-in? Against a LAG player I'd instantly call!But you said he was a TAG and why would he put himself in jeopardy in such a position? Feel like it's a set or KJ and he's trying to protect it from draws...

In a distanced opinion from the table and being at ease with time, I think I'd bring myself to fold this one,It'll be a bad beat with AA that sucks but cost me less and kept me in the tourney...But right there and then when I don't have all that time to think and analyze I might just call putting him on AK or KQ with a draw because that's what I would want him to have ...

 

[wrung24]

My "guess" would be that he hit his set of sevens and is worried that one of you is on a flush draw.

Best case scenario for you is that he has KQ (AK, JJ, KK would have raised preflop is what I think) and that the caller will fold his FD. But that just seems a bit unlikely.

You said you would post the results, I think you're trying to trick us lol, did he have K3 ? That wouldn't surprise me at the level I play at but yours, surely not. Sitting here now I would say that I would fold, but in the "moment" I would probably be my own stubborn self and call, and quite probably be left with a small stack.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

You guys are really considering folding an overpair 31bb deep with antes on a drawy board ?

And you even get great pot odds...

 

[Debi]

No way could I fold this here. I think you have to put him on a range that leaves you ahead too much of the time. Not sure it prevail will call or not but I still have to stay with this hand against those 2 players as you have described them.

 

[Xavier]

I don't even see this as a hard decision. Its an instant all in shove from me.
I think folding here is terrible.

Theres so many potential hands you can beat like AK, KQ, Q10 and various flush draws, and because this guy is clearly a bad player from his stats you can probably open his range a lot more.


Adding it up if I got it right I think you have a pot of about 27000 and only need to call 11000 for Gottaraiseya's all in, the overwhelming likelihood being that the other player will fold to your shove over the top, and not call 2 all ins.

You're only losing to 2 pair combinations and sets, and against 2 pair combinations for Gottaraiseya you're about 33% to win anyway which means you have the pot odds to call.

This means you're only not getting the pot odds to call if one of the players have a set. You can't just fold hands like this because you're worried they have a set. overly tight and passive play doesn't generally win big payouts in tournaments. And KK and JJ are made even more unlikely by the fact that most players would reraise with those hands.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

You said you would post the results, I think you're trying to trick us lol, did he have K3 ? That wouldn't surprise me at the level I play at but yours, surely not.

Lol. I think the only level where the tournament field is mostly devoid of donks are the $25k and $50k buy-in events at wsop. Even in $10k tournaments you will find loads of bad players. This is a $11 donkament. Don't overestimate villains...

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

I would call. He probably has a pair, but I don't think he flopped the two pair. I'm thinking he had KQ. Maybe A K or K 10, but I'm going with KQ.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I actually 'folded'... and reviewing shortly after I realized with pot odds & equity I had in the hand, my chips should've been going in. Bad fold imo.

Part of the reason I folded at the time was because I was holding Ah which made it feel a little bit less likely that the chk-raise allin was with a flush draw (poor thinking cuz with 3 calling already the SB was getting great odds to call preflop & had a decent stack).

MP actually called & he had Th9h for ig-end straight flush gutter draw, SB held 8h7h for a pr. & flush draw (< a tad reckless perhaps with a bet & call... he had the least equity by a longshot).

Result (although not that important obv.), the turn was 7s, giving 87 a set which held up ftw.

Left me with 35bb's,.. not great obv but still a playable stack.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I think you had plenty of time if you could print raises like 1299, 3299....

Raise sizing takes me a split sec. - I usually have a pre-determined size for whatever blind level we're at & use a USB remote keypad.
The time restraint thingy was... trying to calculate what equity my AA might have here in this spot & if it was enough to get it in (turns out it obv was... which I felt at the time, hence wanting to review it afterwards)

 

[TopDonk]

No way could I fold this here. I think you have to put him on a range that leaves you ahead too much of the time. Not sure it prevail will call or not but I still have to stay with this hand against those 2 players as you have described them.

What ranges do you assign villains here?

 

[Elie_Yammine]

hahaha!Then your wrong play made you escape a bad beat right?wrong play, good results...that's not so bad now is it ?

 

[spunka]

The hands that have you beat after the flop would have reraised you (KK, JJ) except for 77 and flopped 2 pairs, the board is very draw heavy with flush and straights possible which many TAG players like to play.

So it's a call.

But I don't like you're raise preflop I think it's a bit on the tiny side, you really don't want to invite drawing hands in the pot against AA and you also don't want a multiway pot.

I know you want action but AA is hard to play when the flop is coordinated and a multiway pot. Raise it strong 4x, 5x, rather win a bit than lose a lot ;-) especally when you don't have position.

Alternative is flat call for the purpose of reraising.

 

[natsgrampy]

Good thing you didn't seek advice from me before you played the hand. Good fold:congrats: ! Although, I still believe it wasn't the correct move, statistically of course.

 

[appaz86]

i would call for sure, there's so much out there

he's clearly a terrible player, theres a chance he's thinking you missed the board of his KQ or AK is best

call for me

 

[BelgoSuisse]

hahaha!Then your wrong play made you escape a bad beat right?wrong play, good results...that's not so bad now is it ?

The way FTP's random number generator works, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. It's not just bad poker, it's also untrue.

 

[malevol]

You raised too small it seemed like a steal and a continuation bet. In my opinion you should have raised to 2000 maybe 2250 and then bet like 5000 on the flop. You raised too little so guys with K10s or KJo/s called you and you might have gotten out flopped.

 

[Elie_Yammine]

The way FTP's random number generator works, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. It's not just bad poker, it's also untrue.

You mean if he would have called, the other one wouldn't have hit his set?
So the cards change depending on whether I call or fold to a raise?
Well I didn't know that...But don't you think it stinks to be changing while you're faced with a tough decision?

 

[BelgoSuisse]

You mean if he would have called, the other one wouldn't have hit his set?
So the cards change depending on whether I call or fold to a raise?

Yes, or whether you call at time T or time T+1 millisecond. The deck is reshuffled at each street and the result of the random process is completely unpredictable until the shuffle is done.

It's a good thing. Best randomness money can buy.

 

[Poker Orifice]

The hands that have you beat after the flop would have reraised you (KK, JJ) except for 77 and flopped 2 pairs, the board is very draw heavy with flush and straights possible which many TAG players like to play.

So it's a call.

But I don't like you're raise preflop I think it's a bit on the tiny side, you really don't want to invite drawing hands in the pot against AA and you also don't want a multiway pot.

I know you want action but AA is hard to play when the flop is coordinated and a multiway pot. Raise it strong 4x, 5x, rather win a bit than lose a lot ;-) especally when you don't have position.

Alternative is flat call for the purpose of reraising.

Thanks but I have no problem with how the hand was played up to the point of making the decision (it's the decision I was asking about.. which upon review I felt was a poor one... hence the post & wanting to review it). I've got to add that I STRONGLY disagree with how you've suggested the hand should be played preflop. An EP raise is considered to be a strong hand... these guys weren't that bad (the one guy's a losing player... but his avg. buyin was $25, he's got some experience).