A7 on button, FT of Sunday million satellite

A

alan1983

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Final table of an Fpp turbo satellite to sunday million, only winner gets entry.

few hands into FT, A7 on button, Whats your move?

Tournament #50179797, 375FPP Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2007/05/13 - 11:13:44 (ET)
Table '50179797 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: bigslic23 (4443 in chips)
Seat 3: weeniedog (5738 in chips)
Seat 4: IRA953 (15147 in chips)
Seat 6: aviiii (3022 in chips)
Seat 7: alan1983 (10300 in chips)
Seat 8: Tony5892 (10835 in chips)
Seat 9: pat-a-tat1 (4515 in chips)
bigslic23: posts the ante 25
weeniedog: posts the ante 25
IRA953: posts the ante 25
aviiii: posts the ante 25
alan1983: posts the ante 25
Tony5892: posts the ante 25
pat-a-tat1: posts the ante 25
Tony5892: posts small blind 200
pat-a-tat1: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to alan1983 [Ad 7c]
bigslic23: folds
weeniedog: folds
IRA953: calls 400
aviiii: folds
alan1983:


IRA had been limping into a few pots, and not a lot of raises happening so i dont think hes being tricky here.

What dyou do?
 
TheMaster88

TheMaster88

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What image have you given to the table? If you've given a tight image, I'd raise about 3x BB to 1200. If you've given a looser image, I would fold and wait for a better opportunity.

Well, either way, it seems likely that IRA953 will get involved so it depends if you are prepared to do a continuation bet. It's a risky hand to make such a move with a bad kicker so maybe fold and wait.
 
MrDaMan

MrDaMan

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You're still early at the final table and don't have a feel for all of the players styles yet. There are 7 players left, A/7 is a weak kicker for 7 players and the chip leader limps into the pot in front of you.

I probably fold this hand and observe, wait for another stronger opportunity.

If you do play it, raise 3 or 4 x BB and see what he does on the flop. If you do have a read on the chip leader as tricky, he may check, if you missed the flop make a continuation bet. If you have a really good draw, take the free card if it comes you can trap him.

Mainly it's still early, the pot only cost you an ante, A/7 is too weak to challenge the chip leader, look for a better opportunity, fold this one.
 
A

alan1983

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For my image:

I was involved in two hands in ft

Came into table shortstacked, pushed with K8s and doubled up against 77.

Then pushed 2 hands later with KK and doubled up again.
 
J

joeeagles

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Don't limp if you are going to enter the pot, raise it to 1600 or fold in my opinion. I like the fold better though.

BTW Alan, next week's sunday million has some money added, if you want we can play a few of these FPP sats together next sunday morning, let me know. This is the 375 FPP sat, right?
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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IRA had been limping into a few pots, and not a lot of raises happening so i dont think hes being tricky here.
Raise him then. 1,500 - 2,000. No-one's going to be pot committed, you could get A8 and A9's to fold, and you want to be picking up the blinds once an orbit - add in the 500 "foldable" chips and i'd have a go at this hand. Don't agree with waiting for a better spot, it's a Turbo, you've got a nice stack, and A7 may be the best you'll see. In reality, you dont even need A7 here -if you dont get called your opponents wont see what you've got, so i'd be happy to bet this with any 2 .This is a nice scenario without any "pot commited" shortstacks in the blinds.
 
A

alan1983

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Sure Joe id love 2 (yeah its the 375)

Rob i did exactly that:

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to alan1983 [Ad 7c]
bigslic23: folds
weeniedog: folds
IRA953: calls 400
aviiii: folds
alan1983: raises 1600 to 2000
Tony5892: calls 1800
pat-a-tat1: folds
IRA953: calls 1600
*** FLOP *** [4s 7d Jd]
Tony5892: checks
IRA953: checks
alan1983:


SB calling made it 3way pot... But i did hit 7.

I think jack is dangerous though since it fits many hands thatd limp/call like Qj or jt.

How much to bet if any?
 
J

joeeagles

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This didn't go well, particularly with the SB calling the raise too. Now there is a big pot (6400) with a tricky flop and you don't know where you stand. That's the problem with playing marginal hands. The next move here depends on what read you have on your opponents, if they've been check/raising, if they're tricky, if they're calling stations or aggressive on their draws and how you think they percieve you.

In absence of reads you probably should still try to take this pot down, so the question becomes: how much to bet? Pot is 6400, so a half pot bet is too much, but there are 2 diamonds on the board. You could try a 2400 bet hoping they fold it there. It will leave you with about 6k and some fold equity (I'm not totally sure on that though).

What is perhaps more important is that, if you do make that c- bet, you need to really think ahead here, you need to have a plan. If you bet and someone or both call, what will you do on the next street if it doesn't improve your hand? What if you get check/raised? Do you want to go all the way here because you're worried about bluffs, which could happen because of pot size?

Another option is the shove. You were the original raiser in this hand (5BB), a shove here could lead them to thinking you have a big PP and they could fold, they actually certainly will if the flop missed them and I doubt anyone would put all their chips in on a draw or just because they paired a J with a hand like KJ or QJ and probably even AJ because of the strength you're showing. It has its risks though, depending on how tricky these players are, if they maybe have a good hand and are trying to set you up.

If you just check (you could), one of the 2 might take a stab at this after the turn, then what you do?

I know that rather than answering your question (how much to bet if any?) I'm just merely weighing pros and cons of the different ways to play this, but the truth is I don't think there is a perfect way to play this hand anymore.

The great aspect of this hand is that, if misplayed, if you miscalculate which way to go, its a perfect ex. of how to **ck up a tourney that until then you played well enough to put yourself in position to win it.

Now, after writing all that crap (lol), it wouldn't be right to not answer your question. With all the risk associated with it, I think I'd go for the shove, taking advantage of the strong image you've shown in this hand. Unless they're tricky, I think the % of both folding is pretty high.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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SB calling made it 3way pot... But i did hit 7.

I think jack is dangerous though since it fits many hands thatd limp/call like Qj or jt.

How much to bet if any?
Considering you've got a 3 way pot, that's pretty much the best flop you are going to get. With one place paying, i'd go all-in - maybe 88 99 TT will fold?

(just seen joeeagles post - not read it yet. Makes mine seen pretty puny :()
 
A

alan1983

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I went for the bet, limper folded but small blind checkraised allin.

Can we call this?

He could have some kind of draw, but this is 1st pot ive seen him in in ft

FLOP ***
[4s 7d Jd]
Tony5892: checks
IRA953: checks
alan1983: bets 3000
Tony5892: raises 5810 to 8810 and is all-in
IRA953: folds
alan1983:
 
J

joeeagles

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Pot is huge, 18210. You're left with 5300. This was the worst case scenario, getting check/raised. Everything has gone wrong in this hand. If you fold this your M is ~6, which kind of makes you pot committed. To complicate matters more, the check/raiser is the SB and you have no read on him.

I don't think you can fold now, Alan. Half your chips are in this pot. There is no clear way to play this now becuse you really have no idea what his range is. You have the A of diamonds, which doesn't mean he still can't be drawing, but it kind of reduces that chance. Only thing left is to look at pot odds.

If he's ahead with a J or an overpair you have 5 outs plus backdoor flush with 2 cards to come, so overall you're a little less than 24% to improve I believe, if my math is right, which makes you a 3.1 to 1 dog. If he's indeed drawing you're about 1.85 to 1 favored. The pot is giving you about 3.5 to 1 odds if you call.

So I think anymore you have to call this, because anymore you're in this mess and now the odds are to call however you look at it, even if there is a good chance it'll be bad news.
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

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Pot is huge, 18210. You're left with 5300. This was the worst case scenario, getting check/raised. Everything has gone wrong in this hand. If you fold this your M is ~6, which kind of makes you pot committed. To complicate matters more, the check/raiser is the SB and you have no read on him.

I don't think you can fold now, Alan. Half your chips are in this pot.
I agree with this - to be honest, looking at hand again the blinds aren't that high compared to your stack, so a fold in hindsight would have got you out of this mess. I advocated big bet to pick up blinds and big stack's limp - if they all folded you would have got a nice pot, but it just didn't work (it doesn't always). After that, you pretty much get dragged along, but i've just played for 2 and a half hours and was dealt 2 hands better than A7 (QQ and A 10) so you cant always sit and wait.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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Too many chips to play A7o... why put yourself in this situation? Easy PF fold.
 
A

alan1983

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true skold, BUT:

A7 is a weak hand but im pretty sure its the best hand, at least so far.

Any decent ace here raises, and big stack was limping with all sorts of suited hands.

So if im sitting at button with a hand that may be best hand preflop, in a turbo where only 1st place gets paid, shouldnt i take a stab at it?

This will start to be abotu stealing and building your stack soon enough, and im gonna be raising with all sorts of hand, why throw away a7 while i have position?


I agree it could get me in trouble, i think it can go both ways?
 
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