Is this a donk move?



Nov 13, 2006
Total posts
I was just involved with a bunch of hands where I'm not 100% sure I played them correctly.

I'll post one a day, or something. So as not to flood the board.

Here's the first one:

pokerstars Game #14135337517: Tournament #71752693, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/12/27 - 15:09:54 (ET)
Table '71752693 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: RIDGELINE14 (1950 in chips)
Seat 2: AB10691069 (1235 in chips)
Seat 3: vossepul (650 in chips)
Seat 4: MrBove (1565 in chips)
Seat 6: sd715 (1820 in chips)
Seat 7: TheVinz (1700 in chips)
Seat 8: Mick the Hat (2620 in chips)
Seat 9: Abundant1 (1300 in chips)
Mick the Hat: posts small blind 25
Abundant1: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrBove [9s 6s]
RIDGELINE14: calls 50
AB10691069: folds
vossepul: folds
MrBove: raises 150 to 200
sd715: folds
TheVinz: calls 200
Mick the Hat: folds
Abundant1: calls 150
RIDGELINE14: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [8s As Qh]
Abundant1: bets 150
RIDGELINE14: folds
MrBove: calls 150
TheVinz: folds
*** TURN *** [8s As Qh] J♣
Abundant1: bets 300
MrBove: calls 300
*** RIVER *** [8s As Qh Jc] 3♠
Abundant1: checks
MrBove: bets 300
Abundant1: calls 300
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MrBove: shows [9s 6s] (a flush, Ace high)
Abundant1: mucks hand
MrBove collected 2325 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2325 | Rake 0
Board [8s As Qh Jc 3s]
Seat 1: RIDGELINE14 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: AB10691069 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: vossepul folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: MrBove showed [9s 6s] and won (2325) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: sd715 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: TheVinz (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Mick the Hat (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Abundant1 (big blind) mucked [Th Jh]

So it was still relatively early on, and I hadn't been playing many hands so I decided to switch it up a bit with this hand. Not sure about that decision.

When he bet on the flop I definitely wasn't putting him on a draw, I put him on the Ace or Queen. Het bet $150 into $825, giving me I believe 5.5 - 1 pot odds. Someone tell me if this is correct. I'm still trying to get this down.

Now with counting outs, that would only be the 9 spades left. I've heard to take your number of outs and multiply it by 4 and this is a way to get a ballpark percentage of what the chances are you will hit your draw. Is this correct? If it is then I'm around 36% to catch this flush. Would that be a correct call then?

Then when the Jack hit that gave me an inside straight if I caught a ten. So I added 4 extra outs, 13 total.

A bet of $300 into $1125. So now the pot odds are a little less than 4 - 1.

Because the Jack gave me 4 extra outs is why I decided to call. I suppose I should have thought of the size of my chip stack before I just called. I wouldn't have a healthy amount left.

The bet on the river was strictly a value bet. If I would have bet higher I figured he'd fold. Definitely because he was on a draw himself and didnt catch it. I don't really know why he called here. I guess he wasn't giving me credit, which is strange because I'd had such a tight image up until then.

Now that I'm looking at it, it definitely seems as if it was played by a total beginner. I thought I was making the right decisions at the time. I don't know, what do you think?


Oct 9, 2006
Total posts
I doubt you'll get much sympathy here for coming in with 69suited, however since you were aggressive about coming in with it some slack may be granted.

The turn must have been tense, and the river spade only a mild relief as you could have been beaten with the bigger flush.

Your comment about switching up tells a bunch. It suggests you were playing too tight to start, and I figure you chose suits as much to shake yourself up as anything. I would hope you have the sense to muck this when nothing or no draw appears.

Even donk plays occasionally get rewarded......


Is drawing with AK
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
My main complaints on this hand are pre-flop.

1) Your stack can't afford to raise with sooted rags. You're likely to flop some sort of draw with this hand, which usually involves calling at least a flop bet, and sometimes a turn bet. In a raised pot, this is likely to be too expensive for you.

2) These rags are a bit too raggy. If you really must get busy, try to limit it to 79, or at least a KX or QX suited. That way you either have a higher probability of flopping an open-ended straight draw (with 79), or your flush draw is stronger (with a suited king or queen). Plus, suited kings & queens can give you a top pair to play with.

3) If you insist on making this play, do it in later position. That way, you have a better chance of playing this pot 1 on 1, rather than 4 on 1.

But you probably know all this.

Post flop, the two calls aren't all that bad if you were playing a cash game. You were getting 6:1 on your money when you had a 6:1 draw. However, this isn't a cash game. Those 2 calls on the flop & turn represent 1/3rd of your stack! If the spade doesn't come (and there's a 2:1 chance it won't), you're going to be playing the rest of the tournament shortstacked with 9 players to eliminate!

As played, I would have seriously considered raising on the flop. The lead out bet looks very weak, and if you think he was capable of folding, then raise & represent a hand like AQ. This may give you a free river card if he checks to you, or it may win you the hand outright.

And you could have probably gotten more value on the river after you hit your flush. The pot at that point was rather large compared to your bet.

However, the key point here is that early in a S&G, you can afford to wait. There are usually 1 or 2 bad players who will pay you off when you hit your good hands. There's no sense in playing raggy draws for big pots early on in the game.


Nov 23, 2007
Total posts
Just to say, the jack only gives you 3 more outs because one of the 10s you need to win is a spade and already counted.


Cardschat Elite
Sep 2, 2007
Total posts
I doubt you'll get much sympathy here for coming in with 69suited, however since you were aggressive about coming in with it some slack may be granted.

I think its a great play. I raise a lot with rag hands like that from late position, as it provides you with chances of picking up chips without having a hand. If your called you can represent on a high board and will hit a low board that no one will put you on. So a very good raise, if your gonig to come into the pot, do it with a raise which is what you did, so kudos to that.

Now for the flop. That is 1 of the best flops you will hit after raising since you have the ace to represent and the spades. If i were you on the flop i would be re raising the bet, you want to be showing strength and showing everyone you have the ace since your the raiser. If you are called you still have the outs, i think its a better play. Others will speak differently though since i play my draws v. aggressively.

I cant really comment on the rest of the hand since it follows a different route to the one i would have took, but it seems like good play. Although im saying it again, if your going to be aggressively pre flop with that hand, you need to continue that aggression on a flop like that to compensate for missing the draw.

Hope that helped

Also many people forget about this stuff. After this hand you need to be making notes about this guy straight away, e.g. leads out with draws, check calls middle pair on river vs no real sign of strength. This kind of stuff will allow you to play better against him in future hands


Nov 13, 2006
Total posts
Thanks for the comments.

Yeah in retrospect a continuation bet was probably in order. I was afraid he would come over the top of me though, and then I would more or less be forced to fold.

And yeah, only 3 outs with 10s instead of 4. Duh.


Dec 18, 2007
Total posts
I agree with the others here... Avoid those hands and more than likely avoid these situations.


Jan 8, 2007
Total posts
Preflop I would like this play a lot better if you are in later position and no one has entered the pot already. As played, you still have 5 people left to act and someone limped into the pot ahead of you. Postflop has already been covered sufficiently with the above posts.

Also, in these $10 S&Gs there is no real reason to mix up your game with relatively low blinds and 9 people still left. The skill level in these is not very good and I would just stick to playing a straightforward TAG game until you reach the bubble. 90% of the people at the table arent looking at your table image at all and you can get paid off fairly easily with a good starting hand. You can start to mix up your play a little bit when you get closer to the bubble, but here, you are just asking for trouble with this raise from early/middle position with a limper behind you.