Was this a bad call?

[TheJace]

$6+0.60 Turbo MTT which started with 225 players and also started with $1,500 chips. The blinds are at $1,500/3,000 with a $300 ante and go up every 6 minutes. We are 9 handed. UTG folds, UTG +1 goes all-in for $8,145, 1 fold, re-raise to $28,335, 2 folds, I go all-in for $28,439 and then 3 more folds. I have Ac Qh, the first all-in had Kd 8d and the re-raiser had Qs Qd. We caught nothing on the board and the queens took down a $71,623 pot. Do you think this was a bad call by me? Also all I wanted was to go for 1st place. Heres what it all looked like:

Players:
$8,145 *All-In* (Win 27.98%/Tie 0.27%)
$82,433.50 *Re-raise to $28,335* (Win 44.56%/Tie 1.02%)
$28,439 *All-In* (Win 26.43%/Tie 1.02%)

Board:


All opinions much appreciated. Thanks in advance for replies.

 

[KingQuadDaddy]

I think it was a bad call. You were the 3rd person to get involved, especially if you werent sure. You were the one with the reads on the players. If the person with 8100 pushes and no callers to you, you push with that hand to isolate. Dominant stack at table re-raises you all in, you have to get away from it. IF dominant stack just calls then you push. At least thats how i would of played it.

 

[Kennyseven]

I think it was a bad call. You were the 3rd person to get involved, especially if you werent sure. You were the one with the reads on the players. If the person with 8100 pushes and no callers to you, you push with that hand to isolate. Dominant stack at table re-raises you all in, you have to get away from it. IF dominant stack just calls then you push. At least thats how i would of played it.

I concur. But what If Big stack has been loose and lucky?

 

[oluaris]

bad call in my opinion (if my opinion counts for anything... lol)

the re-raise really looked like what he had, QQ...
worse hand he had with that re-raise was AK, which still had you beat...
i might have called if it's AQs, again "might", but probably not...
the re-raiser's push meant "get out of my pot, this is mine!" lol

 

[KingQuadDaddy]

I concur. But what If Big stack has been loose and lucky?

Still... only 9 players left. No matter how loose or lucky "Big Stack" has been im not gettin in his pot for all my chips. Coming from a raise and re-raise.

 

[XXXDIRTYDOGXXX]

I agree to early to to put in all your chips at final table, should have stayed out of it. Something I'm trying to learn also "staying out of a pot with a good hand" It's easy to second guess but I probably would have waited for a couple people to drop. I hate being the first one out.

 

[Ronaldadio]

The simple answer to your question...

I am not going to say it was a good or bad call - lets face it, if u had caught your Ace u would not have posted this - right

IMO, this is one of those tourny winning hands.

What do I mean? Well, I`ll tell you.

From what I have observed of online poker, at lower levels. A lot of ppl play a very LAG game. The reason I think is because

1. The buy in is so cheap.
2. If you get bust out of a game it is so easy to join another.

So, ppl will take risks more. So therefore, pushing all in with AQ after a short stack all in and a reraise is not that bad a move - u catch and u r a massive chip leader, u miss and u r out and u can join another game.

Without going on about bad beats, I feel one of the most annoying things about NL tourny play is that you can play perfect poker and get donked out. I suppose, like in this example, u could have made what the pro`s say is a bad call, but an ACE would have taken down the pot. (I have not played a game due to other interests for more than a month, but I`m sure things have not changed that much!!!)

I sometimes think it might not be a bad ploy to have a cut off point and regardless of the action before you push - AQ is one of those hands - basically GAMBLE!!!

I`m rambling, but do I make some kind of sense?

GL

 

[TheJace]

Ya you make perfect sense to me. You just explained everything that went through my head that led me to shove. It's turbo and I only have 10 BB's and I'm about to have only 4-6 in a few minutes and I just wanted 1st and was willing to take risks to get it as that was obviously the only way especially this being a turbo. He could be raising to isolate with pocket tens of anything. Also ya I wouldn't be posting this If i had won, very very true. After I made this thread I thought about it for a good while and decided I was content and would do the exact thing again in that spot. Sure I could fold but realistically, what am I waiting for? I'm about to be chewed up by the blinds and 1-3 people are about to go out which makes for more frequent blinds to eat my stack up (short stacks, absolutely shoving in 1-3 hands). I'm gonna have to pick 2 cards and shove pretty damn soon, especially if I want any remote shot at getting first place and what better hand that AQ? Why not? All I'm really worried about is AA/AK pretty must since I'd be dominated but what're the odds of him having one of two hands out of 169 possible hands? This IS a turbo after all... So to everyone who says fold, I disagree *considering* the context of wanting 1st place only and not to simply slide up a few notches in the money and most very likely definitely not making first place by playing passively like that. What does everyone think of my opinion on this?

 

[KingQuadDaddy]

I think your opinion is sound. Your ? was others opinions of how you played it. Just saying what i would of done. Chances are though if 2 or 3 more ppl are about to go out, you have a better chance at taking them out. I personally like my chances of taking 1st with 6 ppl and a decent stack than 9.

 

[Texsturg]

I was in your same position just a day or 2 ago. I had AQ unsuited. I hate the hand because it is behind a lot of hands and it never seems to work for me. LOL (I lost with the hand also to AK) When the big stack reraised I would have thought he has at minimum a pair or AK. I would have folded also but it would have been a hard fold. You made your play though and unfortunately it didn't work. I hate getting blinded out also and you did have to make a play sometime. Better luck next time.

 

[TheJace]

The problem is that I'd be down to probably like 20k within a few rounds by the time a few other plays get knocked out. In this position if I hit an Ace I would double up plus get 8k and the 9x antes + blinds versus *possibly* doubling up with 20k and no extra 8k in chips + 9 antes.

 

[Hard2Handle]

I know it's tough but all in to a reraise call with AQ....I'd fold. Just depends on your read of how the players are in that particular game. I used to do exactly what you did in that situation but I've slowly worked myself away from making those calls. I gotta say I believe I go deeper when I think my way through it and end up folding.

 

[Ronaldadio]

I know it's tough but all in to a reraise call with AQ....I'd fold. Just depends on your read of how the players are in that particular game. I used to do exactly what you did in that situation but I've slowly worked myself away from making those calls. I gotta say I believe I go deeper when I think my way through it and end up folding.

Its ironic that you say this.

I, like you, play a tight game. I started to notice, however, that I was getting into the money on a regular basis but I would always struggle when I got there as my chip stack was no where as good as the chancers.

So now I play more aggressivley before I`m in the money.

So, if a real rock reraises and I am next to act and I have 10x + bb I`m folding AQ. Less than 10 times bb I`m probably gambling - again it depends. If a shorter stack of a loose player has pushed first, I`m gambling. If we are playing hand for hand, down to last 81 and pays top 80, I have 7/ 8 times bb left, I would fold - I may as well sneak into the cash at this stage.

I don`t think it is as simple, in fact I know its not, as to say u should fold AQ after a raise and a reraise. It always depends on the situation.

In this case, I think the odds are about 55% QQ, 30% AQ + 15% K8s - aprox!!! So if u look at the pot odds even if you had seen all of the cards, it would possibly have been a call, statistically anyway.

This is the great thing about poker, it is rare you find yourself in the same situation twice!!!

 

[BigStackJack]

Hello Jace. I don't know if it was a bad call or not. Actually no one could say it was a bad call or not because no one knows the people you were up against. It really depends on the players in these situations, of course with that hand I would want to see a flop before putting my chips all in, but again who knows. It all depends on the person you are playing sir, just up to you wether or not to risk it. Gl in your future events

 

[THEDONGERINNY]

its all in your read bro....

By all means man this game can be won by the wrong call and lost with the right call. In all honesty the shortsack all in doesnt suprise me with the cards they played. Their guess is to go ahead with it because they are short in stack. Now next, if the big dad at the table goes all in to isolate, i have to say its a bad call cause you at least have to figure an all in call against that bet must be played by queens or better. Thats my only philosophy. Your right earlier in saying playing like a rock can get u just into the money but the aggressive players seem to have two to three times the avg ITM. U did nothing wrong with going for it. But you didnt do it with the right cards. Overall man good luck to you and keep on doing your thing. You know whats up.

 

[23trojan]

I am not going to say it was a good or bad call - lets face it, if u had caught your Ace u would not have posted this - right

IMO, this is one of those tourny winning hands.

What do I mean? Well, I`ll tell you.

From what I have observed of online poker, at lower levels. A lot of ppl play a very LAG game. The reason I think is because

1. The buy in is so cheap.
2. If you get bust out of a game it is so easy to join another

So, ppl will take risks more. So therefore, pushing all in with AQ after a short stack all in and a reraise is not that bad a move - u catch and u r a massive chip leader, u miss and u r out and u can join another game.

Without going on about bad beats, I feel one of the most annoying things about NL tourny play is that you can play perfect poker and get donked out. I suppose, like in this example, u could have made what the pro`s say is a bad call, but an ACE would have taken down the pot. (I have not played a game due to other interests for more than a month, but I`m sure things have not changed that much!!!)

I sometimes think it might not be a bad ploy to have a cut off point and regardless of the action before you push - AQ is one of those hands - basically GAMBLE!!!

I`m rambling, but do I make some kind of sense?

GL

I agree wih this opinions because 6.60 is nothing to some people, so they will take the tournament lightly. AQ is a good hand, but if its not suited and u have two raises, i would fold. it is not worth risking your tournament life.