8Jsuited in BB

shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Total posts
5,389
Was this the right move considering my outs, or did I just get lucky?
IMO, I think it was the right move with 15 outs

pokerstars Game #11578290932: Tournament #57898636, $2.50+$0.25 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2007/08/19 - 17:30:50 (ET)
Table '57898636 139' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: andyhann (1740 in chips)
Seat 2: TomStevensen (3950 in chips)
Seat 3: ab0ve1bel0w (1635 in chips)
Seat 4: DazKaz (485 in chips)
Seat 5: yovic7 (435 in chips)
Seat 6: Orion469 (1185 in chips)
Seat 7: big shuai (1495 in chips)
Seat 8: jdragi (2070 in chips)
Seat 9: gardoll (5945 in chips)
yovic7: posts small blind 25
Orion469: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Orion469 [8s Js]
big shuai: folds
jdragi: calls 50
gardoll: folds
andyhann: folds
TomStevensen: folds
ab0ve1bel0w: folds
DazKaz: calls 50
yovic7: calls 25
Orion469: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qs Ad Ts]
yovic7: bets 385 and is all-in
Orion469: calls 385
jdragi: raises 385 to 770
DazKaz: folds
Orion469: calls 385-(I did take some time here before making the call)
*** TURN *** [Qs Ad Ts] [9h]
Orion469: bets 365 and is all-in
jdragi: calls 365
*** RIVER *** [Qs Ad Ts 9h] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Orion469: shows [8s Js] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
jdragi: shows [Tc Ah] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
Orion469 collected 1500 from side pot
yovic7: shows [As 4d] (a pair of Aces)
yovic7 is sitting out
Orion469 collected 1355 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2855 Main pot 1355. Side pot 1500. | Rake 0
Board [Qs Ad Ts 9h 2d]
Seat 1: andyhann folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: TomStevensen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: ab0ve1bel0w folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: DazKaz (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: yovic7 (small blind) showed [As 4d] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: Orion469 (big blind) showed [8s Js] and won (2855) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 7: big shuai folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: jdragi showed [Tc Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Tens
Seat 9: gardoll folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
A

alan1983

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Dec 13, 2006
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641
You were a favourite to win the hand.

Flush + straight draw.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Double gut + flush draw = absolutely have to get your money in here. The only issue is the flop. I think I either push after the all in, or at least after the minraise. No point just calling considering your stack size.
 
Irexes

Irexes

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Oct 10, 2006
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7,016
I'd push all in on the flop.

This could even have the effect of turning your 8 into an out if the other guy folds (he could have an underpair). The shortstack is all in regardless.
 
RammerJammer

RammerJammer

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I like the preflop check with such a weak hand in second position. I don't like the two flat calls after the flop. Being out of position with a drawing hand like that against a raiser, I believe you should have either beat him large into the pot or folded on the raise. Now, understand, I'm a pretty tight player compared to others here. But, when I look at that hand on the flop, I see that even if I hit my flush, I'm only Queen high. And it's highly possible that I'm chasing a made hand on the Ace-high straight draw for nothing but a chop or, even worse, my Queen-high straight is already cracked. Combine that with the knowledge that it's only the 25/50 level in the early stages of a tournament, when the overriding thought should be "survival", and it looks like a mucked hand to me. I've sure tossed more promising hands under similar circumstances.

It worked out for you and you drug the pot away from Aces and Tens, but I'm not sure it was particularly well thought-out. Not criticizing, just food for thought from someone who bases a lot of his game on avoiding draws like they were curdled milk. For every one you hit, there's a fistful that bust. The problem is, most players only remember the ones that hit. It's called "random reinforcement" and it's the single-most crippling, negative psychological principle in poker. Stick to the numbers, position, and reading your opponent.
 
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M

Mvemjsunpx

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Jul 27, 2007
Total posts
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I think you played the hand fine, other than you probably should have shoved to the min-raise on the flop since you were pot-committed by calling anyway.
You had a 15-outer that gave you at least a 54% of winning against most anything.

On the flop, I like that you just called the all-in rather than raising. You don't want to discourage additional callers because your odds of winning stay essentially the same regardless of how many opponents are added to the pot. In other words, having a 54% chance of winning 2-handed isn't very impressive, but having a 54% chance of winning 3+-handed gives you great pot odds.

The bigger question is: what was with jdragi's min-raise? What was he hoping to accomplish? I would have shoved (or folded) if I was him.
 
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