$6.50 NLHE STT Turbo: $$6.50 NLHE STT Turbo: AA with 3 limpers

[MuscleMan76]

PokerStars - $6+$0.50|15/30 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): 1,405.00
SB: 1,460.00
BB: 1,470.00
UTG: 2,735.00
UTG+1: 1,680.00
MP: 1,780.00
MP+1: 1,760.00
CO: 1,210.00

SB posts SB 15.00, BB posts BB 30.00

Pre Flop: (45.00) Hero has A♠ A♥

UTG calls 30.00, UTG+1 calls 30.00, fold, fold, CO calls 30.00, Hero raises to 240.00, fold, fold, UTG calls 210.00, fold, fold

Flop: (585.00, 2 players) 6♦ Q♦ K♥
UTG bets 300.00, Hero ???

 

[MuscleMan76]

ok apparently it didnt post my question with it...

I figured 8x is a good raise pre with 3 limpers. I figured the only way he hit the flop is with a set, but i think he would have open-raised with KK or QQ preflop. Is there anything wrong with me thinking here?

 

[cjatud2012]

took your results out of your post

Generally you're good to get it in here - an important question would be how has the villain played up to this point, and how did he double up?

 

[MuscleMan76]

Well, it was very early in the game, the blinds were still 15/30. I didn't have nearly enough hands on him to tell what kind of player he is. But i almost feel that it doesn't matter. If he has a monster here he's playing way to passive and if he doesn't he's playing way too loose. It's hard to imagine what he's leading out with here, but its even harder to believe that I'm behind.

 

[OzExorcist]

Can't see any reason not to ship this.

 

[TheKAAHK]

UTG limp? Then call? He has KQ for 2 pair.

 

[OzExorcist]

UTG limp? Then call? He has KQ for 2 pair.

There's loads of stuff in his range other than that - KJ, QJ, AQ, medium pairs and draws for example.

In fact I'd lean towards this rarely being KQ or a set because the vast majority of players at this level will be thinking "OMFG woohoo I've flopped a monster, I'm gonna take a trip to valuetown by slowplaying it". If it turns out this is the sort of player that leads into a preflop aggressor with that sort of hand then we definitely make a note because we've found a rarity. About the only thing that would give me pause on shoving this is that we might lose value from some of the above hands that can't call. Offsetting that against charging drawing hands makes me think this is still a shove though.

 

[c9h13no3]

Ship the nickels you must.

 

[brackdog]

Or 66. In the freerolls and micro buy-in tourneys, the limp/call-a-big-raise from early position screams passive player with small pocket pair.

I can't reconcile the pre-flop and post-flop play. If he did hit KQ or 66, how does he not check that, given his limp/call pre? Makes me want to think he's semi-bluffing a flush or straight draw. AK has to be a raising hand, but maybe add A10, KJ, J10 and middle heart connectors/gappers to his range? Seems kind of loose but maybe he's feeling frisky after an early double up?

bd

 

[TheKAAHK]

I think you guys are giving the Villain too much credit for thinking. How does he not check that? Two diamonds on the flop. He's weak and scared.

 

[c9h13no3]

I think you guys are giving the Villain too much credit for thinking. How does he not check that? Two diamonds on the flop. He's weak and scared.

R-A-N-G-E

 

[Lofwyr]

Ship your chips and be happy about it.

If villain shows you a huge hand it's a cooler and it sucks. Note the player tendency and move on to the next hand/SnG. In the long run they'll have enough draws/random pair hands to be hugely profitable. Not to mention the pot is so big you can't fold pretty much. On that flop with a stack only 2x the pot-size you get all your chips in against pretty much anyone willing to limp/call 8x UTG.

 

[TheKAAHK]

R-A-N-G-E

Thank you c9, I'm well aware of range.

KQ is most certainly in an UTG limping range here. I play many of these $6 T's and I see it all the time. In fact I was just busted from one just moments ago by KQ limping UTG then calling my raise. I had AK. We both hit top pair on a raggedy board, he bet, I shoved he called and he hit the Q on the turn.

I stand by my assumption that KQ is in his range and that his flop bet was a scared bet due to two diamonds. Or maybe he was a thinking player (to a degree) and felt that MM had maybe AK or AA due to the re-raise pre and wanted to induce the shove.

Typing range spaced in caps does not change the likelyhood of the villain holding KQ in that spot.

Now I'm not saying fold it here. I'd be shipping it all day. But judging from the fact that he posted this hand in the first place suggests that I may be correct in assuming that the villain could have had KQ there. Small PP's spiking a set are also a possibility, but I just feel that KQ is more likely than 66 or even QQ. QQ is likely to get shipped pre in that spot anyways, so unless villain is getting tricky we can almost rule that one out.

 

[OzExorcist]

OK, a question: exactly how much of villain's range is made up of KQ hands in your opinion? Does he have KQ 20% of the time, 50%, 70%?

 

[WiZZiM]

Fold because he must have KsQd.

But seriously, get it in dude!

 

[DetroitJimmy]

LOL, big over pair, TPTK is the nuts in a turbo. Ship it already. If he flips two pair or set so be it and move on to the next. Don't even think twice about it unless villian is very passive and board very wet. Even then......

 

[Rldetheflop]

no way I am not shoving here. Everything about this villain seems to scream bad anyway so i would take my chances. I mean its the first few hands and already has doubled up(usually means bad). Limps utg then flats 8x raise(means bad). I am happy to get my chips in at anytime with AA against a really bad player because the times they show up with a monster is far outweighed by the times they stack off with a hand I have crushed.

 

[MuscleMan76]

Ok, glad to see you all agree with me for the most part. My only question is if it is a semi-bluff, will my shove ever get him to fold? Obviously if he hit a set he isn't folding, but i still think its hard to put him on one since he played so passively pre-flop. My best guess was AK/AQ or maybe AJd. AK/AQ would be great, but if he is on a draw will my hand hold up enough times for it to still be a profitable shove (assuming he's never folding)?

 

[DetroitJimmy]

Ok, glad to see you all agree with me for the most part. My only question is if it is a semi-bluff, will my shove ever get him to fold? Obviously if he hit a set he isn't folding, but i still think its hard to put him on one since he played so passively pre-flop. My best guess was AK/AQ or maybe AJd. AK/AQ would be great, but if he is on a draw will my hand hold up enough times for it to still be a profitable shove (assuming he's never folding)?

Yeah, really only draw ahead of you is JdTd giving him 15 outs or about 60% to win. But over a whole range of draws and possible hands he holds you are way ahead and don't mind a call.

 

[Lofwyr]

Ok, glad to see you all agree with me for the most part. My only question is if it is a semi-bluff, will my shove ever get him to fold? Obviously if he hit a set he isn't folding, but i still think its hard to put him on one since he played so passively pre-flop. My best guess was AK/AQ or maybe AJd. AK/AQ would be great, but if he is on a draw will my hand hold up enough times for it to still be a profitable shove (assuming he's never folding)?

Unless he has a MONSTER draw (in which case he'd be slightly better than 50% equity) you are well ahead of his draw and will of course hold up often enough to show profit. I mean...assume he has a flush-draw and gets 9 outs twice with potential to backdoor two-pair. He's like a 70/30 underdog in that situation so you would like to do everything you can to get his money in the pot.

 

[c9h13no3]

Thank you c9, I'm well aware of range.

Apparently not since you keep putting our opponent on one hand. So I felt like reminding you. How about you think up ALL the hands our opponent could have, and give me an equity? Or is pokerstove too difficult?

I love the tournament forum because the most obvious spots that are a non-decision get debated. At least in the cash game forum sometimes the decisions are difficult.

 

[DetroitJimmy]

Or is pokerstove too difficult?

I don't know about him but I had tough time with it. Do you know where I could get useful easy to understand tutorial for the typical simple minded STT player?.

 

[fletchdad]

Shove. Oh yea. All day.

DetriotJimmy, what do you need to know about Pokerstove? Try a post HERE

 

[regd87]

Shove imo.

 

[Jillychemung]

Do you know where I could get useful easy to understand tutorial for the typical simple minded STT player?.

https://www.cardschat.com/f53/how-use-pokerstove-165772/