$535 NLHE Deep Stacked: How would you proceed now? and why?

[ripclawph]

$535 NL HE Deep Stacked: How would you proceed now? and why?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2500/5000 Blinds 600 Ante (8 handed) -

saw flop | saw showdown

CO (t152510)
Button (t190622)
SB (t187203)
Ripclawph ( BB ) (t305100)
UTG (t152802)
UTG+1 (t221495)
tassat609 (MP1) (t108974)
MP2 (t97829)

Ripclawph's M: 24.80

Preflop: Ripclawph is BB with ,
2 folds, tassat609 bets t11999, 4 folds, Ripclawph calls t6999

Flop: (t31298) , , (2 players)
Ripclawph bets t12500, tassat609 calls t12500

Turn: (t56298) (2 players)


How would you proceed if you were me???

 

[cjatud2012]

Is it just me, or do the cards not appear in the OP...

 

[slycbnew]

I can see them. Hero has Kc4c, flop is 4dKsJs, turn is 2c.

 

[Jillychemung]

As played, check to try and control the size of the pot. Yeah that gives any FD/ST8D a chance at a free card but I'd hate to value bet again and get shoved on. What was your thinking on the size of your flop (donk) bet?

Other comments
1)Fold preflop
2)Check the flop and fire a pot sized bet on the turn

 

[jaded848]

As played, check to try and control the size of the pot. Yeah that gives any FD/ST8D a chance at a free card but I'd hate to value bet again and get shoved on. What was your thinking on the size of your flop (donk) bet?

Other comments
1)Fold preflop
2)Check the flop and fire a pot sized bet on the turn

I'm a bit confused here. I do not have much (if any) experience with deep stacked tournaments, but why check the flop (unless as an intention to check-raise)? The only hands that beat us are KJ, JJ, 44, and KK, three of which are evermore unlikely considering our own hand. When the 2 hits, it only adds 22 as a hand to fear. I can't say I know anything about how $500 tourneys operate, but also- as played, wouldn't it make more sense to bet the turn and give him the wrong odds to outdraw us than to check? There are so many scare cards that could hit on the river that we might get bluffed off the hand if we let it reach that far. Even if he does shove on the turn, couldn't his range include hands like AK, AA, and all the draws that he only has 1 card to reach?

 

[Teebone]

As played, pot it on the turn.

If you get called think about what kind of hands he can call you with.

Next move depends on the river. If no scare cards come on the river, id bet 3/4-1/2 the pot and call most anything.


I think a check raise on the flop would have been best so you could see where your at more. He can call you with anything with a bet like that on the flop. You get no more information. OOP sucks.

 

[tomh7795]

The flop bet could quite easily be a cbet with with nothing. I don't see how betting pot on turn
is the best way to go. I would check and let him bluff again and he might bet second pair or a weak st8 draw which he would fold to a pot size bet and if your lucky he might have ak kq or aa. I would check raise turn to give him bad odds for any drawing hands and by check raising it means that you would have more chance to get your stacks in the middle because he would probably just call yor turn bet with aa ak kq k10 hands I think. Can anyone care to explain why betting pot on turn is the best way to go?

 

[slycbnew]

The flop bet could quite easily be a cbet with with nothing. I don't see how betting pot on turn
is the best way to go. I would check and let him bluff again and he might bet second pair or a weak st8 draw which he would fold to a pot size bet and if your lucky he might have ak kq or aa. I would check raise turn to give him bad odds for any drawing hands and by check raising it means that you would have more chance to get your stacks in the middle because he would probably just call yor turn bet with aa ak kq k10 hands I think. Can anyone care to explain why betting pot on turn is the best way to go?

Hero donk bet the flop after calling in the bb, no cbet was made, so Villain hasn't had an opportunity to bluff yet.

Potting turn is only going to be called by hands that beat us, never by hands we're ahead of - if we pot, get called, and then think about what hands he's calling w, we've made a mistake (we should be thinking about this before we bet).

 

[tomh7795]

The flop bet could quite easily be a cbet with with nothing. I don't see how betting pot on turn
is the best way to go. I would check and let him bluff again and he might bet second pair or a weak st8 draw which he would fold to nstalkerMMNS pot size bet and if your lucky he might have ak kq or aa. I would check raise turn to give him bad odds for any drawing hands and by check raising it means that you would have more chance to get your stacks in the middle because he would probably just call yor turn bet with aa ak kq k10 hands I think. Can anyone care to explain why betting pot on turn is the best way to go?

The flop bet was a bad idea because the only hands your beating if called are a straight draw or ak kq but you should of checked flop. I would bet near pot on turn and if you are called again then you are sure your hand is dead unless your opponent is loose

 

[tomh7795]

Hero donk bet the flop after calling in the bb, no cbet was made, so Villain hasn't had an opportunity to bluff yet.

Potting turn is only going to be called by hands that beat us, never by hands we're ahead of - if we pot, get called, and then think about what hands he's calling w, we've made a mistake (we should be thinking about this before we bet).

Thanks for pointing that out lol. I think I need my specs
on

 

[Marginal]

I like the check here. So many people donk bluff and check back later streets. He will be leading a ton of bad hands and you can get value on the river if he checks back turn. Now I do not have a problem with preflop if the plan was to stop and go and bet 3 streets as bluff or something.

 

[tomh7795]

Hero donk bet the flop after calling in the bb, no cbet was made, so Villain hasn't had an opportunity to bluff yet.

Potting turn is only going to be called by hands that beat us, never by hands we're ahead of - if we pot, get called, and then think about what hands he's calling w, we've made a mistake (we should be thinking about this before we bet).

I like the check here. So many people donk bluff and check back later streets. He will be leading a ton of bad hands and you can get value on the river if he checks back turn. Now I do not have a problem with preflop if the plan was to stop and go and bet 3 streets as bluff or something.

What if he bets turn which he could do with a wide range and then you'll would be put to a tough spot with the 2 pair. If you just call he might bet river because you would have to check river. The ony reason the hand is hard to play is simply because of the flop bet.

 

[Marginal]

If he bets, it becomes a very very easy call down.

 

[tomh7795]

If he bets, it becomes a very very easy call down.

So you would call turn and call river? So you would call the turn and probably face a river bet for all/high percentage of your chips. So you would call most off all your chips with 2 pair here?

 

[Marginal]

Do any of you realise the stack sizes? He has 20bb, we have 60bb, we do not risk all of our chips and villain will show up with a shit ton worse. This is tournament poker, 2 pair is gold in this kind of situation and I would even go about betting all 3 streets but would not like to fold out QQ or Jx

 

[Marginal]

Btw, I am shoving the river if villain checks back the turn.

 

[tomh7795]

Do any of you realise the stack sizes? He has 20bb, we have 60bb, we do not risk all of our chips and villain will show up with a shit ton worse. This is tournament poker, 2 pair is gold in this kind of situation and I would even go about betting all 3 streets but would not like to fold out QQ or Jx

Ohh fk. I thought he had 1 mill stack. Woops. I need to double check from
now on. Sorry bout that. My bad. I would probably push all in turn instead of ck calling.

 

[Teebone]

Hero donk bet the flop after calling in the bb, no cbet was made, so Villain hasn't had an opportunity to bluff yet.

Potting turn is only going to be called by hands that beat us, never by hands we're ahead of - if we pot, get called, and then think about what hands he's calling w, we've made a mistake (we should be thinking about this before we bet).

Checking and inducing a bluff gets more value out of the hand. However you also have a chance at getting sucked out on. Id rather take down the pot on the turn. Also, what hands are better then us here? KK JJ 44?

He could easily have the nuts and bet the turn, while we think were inducing a bluff.





Also potting the turn gets value from AK and q/10 and some flush draws.


Either way i dont see us laying this down.

 

[slycbnew]

Also potting the turn gets value from AK and q/10 and some flush draws.

Either way i dont see us laying this down.

Meh, I don't see him calling off more than half his stack on the hands you listed as getting value from potting the turn (he'd have to shove or fold imo), but I could certainly be wrong.

Definitely not laying it down, personally I like the lines jilly and marginal are planning.

 

[Teebone]

Thats ok everyone is entitled to there own opinion.

 

[Zybomb]

I'd like a CRAI on the turn personally.

By checking we should get bets (and thus value)out of hands that floated, AK KQ AA, flush draws and straight draws. When we CRAI AA,AK hands might be pot committed into calling (if not we protect our hand against counterfeit outs which is fine), and we might push out drawing hands (fine) or get them to put their remaining chips in with one card to come (also fine). Sure by raising we fold out the floats, but it's unlikely they'd bluff the river anyway

Yea it kinda sucks if he checks back, but this just doesn't seem like a spot where villain will check behind much.

Given stack sizes and our hand strength (and how much worse can bet) giving any consideration to folding is a mistake IMO