$5 NLHE STT: AA early in STT

[cjatud2012]

$5 NL HE STT: AA early in STT

No reads. Simple question: push/fold?

full tilt poker $5 + $0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 8 players - View hand 521067
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: t1455 M = 32.33
Hero (BTN): t1380 M = 30.67
SB: t1470 M = 32.67
BB: t1635 M = 36.33
UTG: t1500 M = 33.33
UTG+1: t1470 M = 32.67
MP1: t1500 M = 33.33
MP2: t3090 M = 68.67

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BTN with A :spade: A :heart:
UTG calls t30, 3 folds, CO calls t30, Hero raises to t120, 1 fold, BB calls t90, UTG calls t90, CO calls t90

Flop: (t495) 4 :spade: 8 :club: 9 :diamond: (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets t270, CO raises to t740, Hero ???

 

[Jillychemung]

IMHO the large percentage of time this will be TPTK type hands and I'd have no qualms about shoving here or even call then shove any turn.

 

[salim271]

So sick.... at the worst you're up against a set, I would say KK or QQ but no one reraised you preflop so honestly I think no one has that kind of hand... no one would reraise like that on a draw... at best you're up against top pair but i somehow doubt it.

 

[WiZZiM]

if your up against regs your drawing to two outs....

hugely depends on who your up against..

 

[TopDonk]

yeah you wil see a set or 2pair aloy here I would just fold, you have a good playable stack left.

TD

 

[joker131]

raise and reraise on a bad flop can only spell 1 thing, they have hit the trips or have high pockets than the cards on the flop. to early in the game , fold unless u dont mind loseing $5, in wich case shove and take a chance, pokers all about takeing chances online, sometimes they pay off .........................joker131

 

[ImolAyrton]

Very dry flop. Someone must have hit a set or a big overpair. Since you dont have any stats about villains I suggest fold.

 

[WiZZiM]

sorry missed the no reads part.... erm.. tricky spot... i probably raise more preflop. my raise here at the 15.30 levels is around 4x the blind, so id make it 6x here, due to the two limpers,, may have gotten heads up against someone and then your quite happy to shove on the flop against one opponant..

problem is he probabaly plays 9;s thru to jacks the same way, jacks and higher less likely he probably reraises preflop..

like i said before if your up against regular players, looks like he limped with a small pair, and if a reg is giving action on this flop, you know he must have it.. when they are playing more than 4 sng at a time you can generally assue they are regs..

no reads....no fold equity... i still think fold... pains me to say it.. you still have a huge shot at winning this thing, if your wrong here.. its all over..

 

[trask23]

In that situation I would definitely be worried about a set (120 raise, could see 8's or 9's easy making that call). and like top donk said you will see two pair alot in these situations in the larger tourneys. throw it away and live to play!

 

[dj11]

Thinking it thru, I would guess a set would normally bet much less, seeking to keep people in the hand. So most of the time I would mostly negate that possibility. However, shit happens.

As much as it could be TPTK, or even an overpair, I think it is a blatant steal and I'd shove.

 

[cjatud2012]

Thinking it thru, I would guess a set would normally bet much less, seeking to keep people in the hand. So most of the time I would mostly negate that possibility. However, shit happens.

As much as it could be TPTK, or even an overpair, I think it is a blatant steal and I'd shove.

A blatant steal in a four-handed pot, where two opponents have shown strength, and villain has not really committed himself to the pot?

Normally I would wait a little longer to post results, but this has gotten a lot of feedback already. I shipped, and all three players called me. I was up against JJ, KK, and 88.

Question to those saying to fold-- I agree that it's the right play, but how easy is it to actually do it? It's not often that I would muck the best starting hand on the flop.

 

[salim271]

Wow these people are stupid, no one reraised with KK or JJ preflop? I did NOT expect to see any pocket pairs larger than 99... at least I was right and someone did have a set...

 

[cjatud2012]

Wow these people are stupid, no one reraised with KK or JJ preflop? I did NOT expect to see any pocket pairs larger than 99... at least I was right and someone did have a set...

Lol yeah, the UTG player had JJ, which is awful. BB had KK, which is also awful. CO (flop raiser) had 88. It was certainly peculiar. Cursing the poker gods and mucking probably was right, but I either I was too curious or I'm just not good enough yet.

 

[WiZZiM]

the problem with your preflop raise is that you gave the guy with 88 the odds to set mine he was quite ok making that call since he was the last to call a bet.. calling 90 with decent implied odds, to someone whos shown real strength on the button, if he hits his 8 its very likely he gets paid off for it.. if he doesnt he can fold leaving himself plenty of chips anyway.

making it 150 or more in this spot denies him those implied odds moreso, so it becomes more of a mistake for him to call.. goofy hand though.. waht was the guy in the BB thinking?? not much obv

 

[cjatud2012]

the problem with your preflop raise is that you gave the guy with 88 the odds to set mine he was quite ok making that call since he was the last to call a bet.. calling 90 with decent implied odds, to someone whos shown real strength on the button, if he hits his 8 its very likely he gets paid off for it.. if he doesnt he can fold leaving himself plenty of chips anyway.

making it 150 or more in this spot denies him those implied odds moreso, so it becomes more of a mistake for him to call.. goofy hand though.. waht was the guy in the BB thinking?? not much obv

^^ Will do next time. Thanks for the tips

 

[brank]

guy with Ks is thinking, sweet, i can trap 3 players here instead of just 1. jaja, laughable.

this is how people play $5 STTs? cant wait till im bankrolled for that shiz

 

[WiZZiM]

guy with Ks is thinking, sweet, i can trap 3 players here instead of just 1. jaja, laughable.

this is how people play $5 STTs? cant wait till im bankrolled for that shiz

the non turbo 5's are ok the turbo 6.50's are a little harder.. all are beatable though obv..

 

[brank]

btw cj, i wasnt dissin your play or anythin. i too would say to raise more pre flop, like 150+ but as u say u have no reads so u cant know if all these guys are callin loose. it then should have been 3 bet and so u can shove, thats how the hand should have played out imo. but as it is i agree with most above, someone has to have a set here. looks like youve seen bout 5-6 hands here judgin by the stack sizes so, ya fold it. im not really saying anything new here so ill just stop now.

 

[Henreiman]

Shove, could have 89 but much more likely 66, 77, 1010. Don't see the set, most players would smooth call. Even if they did hit some form of two pair, you have outs

 

[WiZZiM]

Shove, could have 89 but much more likely 66, 77, 1010. Don't see the set, most players would smooth call. Even if they did hit some form of two pair, you have outs

i fast play most of my sets.. any sort of straight card could be viewed as a danger card for an opponant and they could slow down.. once i hit a set i usually try to get the money in on the flop.. say for example there is a flush draw.. im not really that concerned about it tbh. but if i check the flop or smoothcall and the flush card hits, it could cause my opponant to slow down and give him a reason to call... so if hes a decent regular sng player, hed know to fast play this set.. by the looks he cant be too bad, def had odds to set mine and fast played his set to get max profit..

the play is generally so weak in these sng's you can afford to fold this spot early, as in the late blind play you should have an edge over the early loose players, they tend to tighten up then its just a matter of when and what hands to shove in, and what hands to call with.. basic icm..

 

[mrjohnson911]

i think the preflop raise is too small, id make it around 160-170...
i disagree with the assumption that a set would only call here... if it wants to get paid out while being ahead this is the point, also theres a straight draw out there and a lot of scare cards.... i think you can fold here, but like we saw your opponents played it superweird so I guess you could go broke too

 

[jaded848]

i fast play most of my sets.. any sort of straight card could be viewed as a danger card for an opponant and they could slow down.. once i hit a set i usually try to get the money in on the flop.. say for example there is a flush draw.. im not really that concerned about it tbh. but if i check the flop or smoothcall and the flush card hits, it could cause my opponant to slow down and give him a reason to call... so if hes a decent regular sng player, hed know to fast play this set.. by the looks he cant be too bad, def had odds to set mine and fast played his set to get max profit..

the play is generally so weak in these sng's you can afford to fold this spot early, as in the late blind play you should have an edge over the early loose players, they tend to tighten up then its just a matter of when and what hands to shove in, and what hands to call with.. basic icm..

Sorry to revive this thread but this intrigued me, as I almost always slowplay my sets. Do you generally get paid off well when you fast play them WiZZiM? I can think of multiple times where I've checked and then an A or K hits on the turn and the villain thinks he's made with top pair and doesn't mind stacking off. I think I see your point though, in that with a wet flop a bad turn card can either fill your opponents draw or scare them into thinking you've filled that exact draw yourself. Might have to start fast playing more...

When you fast play them, how much would you bet if villain checked to you?