$5 NLHE MTT: check raised with top pair 35bb

[Dubstep]

PokerStars - $5+$0.50|1800/3600 Ante 450 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 44.16 BB (VPIP: 14.89, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 47)
Hero (CO): 87.72 BB
BTN: 38.63 BB (VPIP: 22.50, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 40)
SB: 34.3 BB (VPIP: 32.58, PFR: 11.97, 3Bet Preflop: 2.33, Hands: 132)
BB: 42.19 BB (VPIP: 21.53, PFR: 8.06, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 144)
UTG: 43.48 BB (VPIP: 13.46, PFR: 11.54, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 52)
UTG+1: 53.67 BB (VPIP: 22.14, PFR: 18.33, 3Bet Preflop: 4.76, Hands: 132)
MP: 36.62 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has K:diamond: T:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, SB calls 1.5 BB, fold

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 3:diamond: 6:heart: T:heart:
SB checks, Hero bets 4 BB, SB raises to 18 BB, :canabis:

 

[horizon12]

Fold vs this villain , with lose passive stats...you're already far behind on this board..

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I think you can make a well disciplined tough fold here.

The worst he can do this with is a flush draw or very occasionally a bluff... But usually you'll get shown AT or a set in this spot.

Sometimes you're folding the best hand here, but that's ok because you haven't invested too much in your TPGK...if you can't fold top pair in a small pot when somebody makes a huge aggressive move; then you'd be a calling station.

 

[Siberian13]

I would have to agree with missjacki that you are going to get shown A10 more than likely. An Ace high or two overs flush draw as well. Folding seems like the best option. Plus you still have plenty of chips to work with.

 

[WiZZiM]

Snap it. Hes playing 30 vpip so he likes calling with stuff we dominate.

He only has 30bb so im not sure what typea of flops we like better than this to move our chips in. Yes were going to see at sometimes but were also going to see draws hands like t9s qt jt combo draws etc. We coukd see iverpairs sometimes also but overall were left with 50 bb if we lose so were still left with a nice stack if we are wrong.

Is this guy actually passive or aggro postflop? If hes passive then a lot of the hands I mentioned are likely to ju st call to river leaving only a really strong range.

If hes in any way agro then he will likely be overplaying hands he shouldnt be.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Don't fold flop!

We beat so many hands, we can call happily and there are lots of turn cards we can be happy stacking off with. Any diamond, any blank, any T and any K obviously are all good outs. The only time I'm folding turn is if its like say 8h/9h/Th and he just shoves.

Folding flop seems bad.

 

[TomLeach]

Left himself with 14BB, so thats going in on the turn i guess, unless he has shown tendencies to be a huge fish?

Fold: Youve lost like 5bb and maybe made a good fold.
Call: You have to call the extra 16bb now, and the 14bb thats coming in 95% of the time on the turn, and youre only happy doing that if a K or T come, and you can be ok with it if a diamond or blank, and another heart makes you vomit..
Raise: Shoving all in you get rid of all his bluffs, maybe a couple of weak hearts... and with his stack and commitment hes probably calling with 63 (if hes come in with that pre).

Tough one without knowing more about him, and in different situations I can do each one.


I just saw, youre pretty deep in the tourney, so this guys stats might not represent the situation entirely, he could have been opening closer to 40%VPIP, and now hes kinda short and going deep he's tightened up, in which case hes definitely got more A10 in his range.. Im probably folding here.

 

[suby_rafael]

I personally am a bit reluctant to fold this. Because we have a strong hand (top pair with good kicker) and the villain's raise is such a big one and his vpip is also very high and he plays a lot of hands.

 

[Arjonius]

I'd want to consider more than just vpip and pfr. He looks loose aggressive, but how much of the 20+ difference is due to limping vs calling raises? Someone who limps a lot can be quite a different player from one who calls raises a lot. Also, as mentioned, what are his tendencies post-flop?

 

[Marcwantstowin]

I agree with above I would not fold this, to me and it is just a feeling I would have playing him that his raise was too high. I think he is trying to out price you for a flush. I would re-raise him all-in and I expect he would fold, if not, he would be calling with a worse hand.

 

[TomLeach]

I agree with above I would not fold this, to me and it is just a feeling I would have playing him that his raise was too high. I think he is trying to out price you for a flush. I would re-raise him all-in and I expect he would fold, if not, he would be calling with a worse hand.

If hes outpricing a flush, you have to put him on a hand though, what hand does he have there that he doesnt want you to outdraw? A6, A10, with a large VPIP i guess you could argue 63s...

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I just think you can lay down what MAY be the best hand here because the pot is small and we'll still have a stack. It's ok to sometimes fold the best hand in a tourney especially when you're unsure with a marginally good hand and somebody wants to play a huge pot.

In the early stages I've folded AA on a JT4 flop when I bet and they raise me huge like 2x the pot. Its highly possible I have the best hand; but It's not worth going to war with 1 pair when you'll have so many profitable opportunities to pick up chips later with less risk.

 

[hffjd2000]

I think we are ahead here and so at least have to call. I will evaluate on the turn what action brings.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I don't think "probably being ahead" Is a good enough reason to play a huge pot in a tourney.

In a cash game, then yes being ahead is a good enough reason to get your money in.

Tourneys are about stack size management. We don't have to play every potentially profitable spot if it threatens our stack and ability to play more profitable spots in the future.

In a cash game if you get it in slightly ahead and lose you can rebuy and still grind out your edge over the table.

In a tourney if you get it in slightly ahead and lose, you also lose your ability to play your edge in all future spots.

I say you're sometimes ahead, sometimes behind. It's ok to fold in this small pot. Vs a LAG sometimes you have to make a stand with TP or better. Is he a LAG? He just seems loose to me. Limpy loose players usually just call along with semi-strong hands.

 

[Everybodylovesdeuces]

Sorry because I don't play much online I just want to make sure I'm reading the stats correctly. It looks like this player plays a really wide range, correct? There's a good chance AT would donk be this flop to protect against a flush and keep the drawing hands from getting a free card. I would donk be this flop with AT. I notice he doesn't 3-bet much so a flat with AT makes sense but so do a lot of other hands including a lot of straight and flush draws. A flush draw really makes sense because he might check for a free card and reraise. Although that line also makes sense for AhTx. We could also be worried about a set of sixes or threes here.

I still wouldn't be that quick to give up the hand. The flush draws, straight draws, and T with a worse kicker are all in his range. I would probably flat and jam the turn if he checks (pending a brick) or fold if he jams a scare card.

Uhg this is why I love live tournaments so much better. My read would be the tie breaker.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

VPIP: means voluntarily put money in pot
PFR: means preflop raise

So this player plays 32% of hands but only raises 12% of hands

To me, that means a loose passive player.

 

[Everybodylovesdeuces]

I guess I would just need some history on if they liked to bet or raise (or check raise) draws or not. What have you seen this guy show down so far and how did those hands play out?

 

[el_magiciann]

I'm folding in that spot, its too dangerous spot and with only TPGK i can't continue the hand against loose/passive player. Clear fold to me pair 3's and 6's are totally in his range!

 

[WiZZiM]

VPIP: means voluntarily put money in pot
PFR: means preflop raise

So this player plays 32% of hands but only raises 12% of hands

To me, that means a loose passive player.

Most likely ya. For some reason I read the 2.2 prdlop thinf as ag factor. If they are passive its a lot closer and folding makes a lot more sense. If they are aggro in any way calling it off makes a lot more sense.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

So If we call the pot will have 46bbs and villain will have 14bbs.

In virtually 100% of scenarios villains stack gets in by the river and we're forced to call with getting better than 4:1 pot odds. (Barring a super bad run out)

So this isn't a 18bb call, it is a 32bb call; and the pot currently has 6bb in it

The only turn cards we're happy about are a non heart King or a ten.

I realize sometimes we're ahead. But if he has a hand like a flush draw with 2 overs he's actually the favorite. If he has a set we're dead to runner runner outs. If he has AT we're drawing to 3 outs and hope he doesn't have the Ah.

If he has a flush draw with 1 over (somewhat likely). He is still 45% to win.

We're only doing well against worse tens, small flush draws and pure bluffs.

The more I think about it the more I think his line screams "set" Or "big draw" Both of which have us in bad shape.

 

[duggs]

Not thing that really worries me is his 3bet % if he was splashy post i think an easy shove/call

Missi, folding +EV spots is almost always a mistake, especially when we cover and ICM isn't handcuffing is. We are also left with a stake size that allows us to exert close to our full edge (I assume) if we lose. If you don't think it's profitable to call I'm fine with that, it's a valid opinion, but sayings its profitable but we should fold anyway is kinda odd in a tournament imo

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Not thing that really worries me is his 3bet % if he was splashy post i think an easy shove/call

Missi, folding +EV spots is almost always a mistake, especially when we cover and ICM isn't handcuffing is. We are also left with a stake size that allows us to exert close to our full edge (I assume) if we lose. If you don't think it's profitable to call I'm fine with that, it's a valid opinion, but sayings its profitable but we should fold anyway is kinda odd in a tournament imo

I think we may be ahead, but usually only slightly and we're often crushed.

And I just simply disagree that you always take +EV spots in tourneys. Stack sizes must be a consideration. Otherwise you should always flip for 100+bbs preflop if you have deuces and you put them on AK. I think you can let some barely profitable spots go in tourneys if it's going to result in a huge stack swing and you can find more profitable spots later. Should you flip for your tourney life with a big stack as a slight favorite vs another big stack when you know if you fold you can find a lot more spots with a lot bigger edge?

 

[Everybodylovesdeuces]

The more I think about it the more I think his line screams "set" Or "big draw" Both of which have us in bad shape.

That's why I say flat and jam a non-heart turn unless he jams before us. Unless he's a maniac I don't think a missed draw on turn is jamming so for not much more we get one more read on him.

 

[suby_rafael]

That's why I say flat and jam a non-heart turn unless he jams before us. Unless he's a maniac I don't think a missed draw on turn is jamming so for not much more we get one more read on him.

Villian has shown that he is committed to the pot. Villain had 34 bb pre flop. After the flop check raise he has 14 bb left. If we flat call the check rise then pot size is about 40bb. He is going to shove turn no matter what card falls.

The more I think about it the more I think his line screams "set" Or "big draw" Both of which have us in bad shape.

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