$5 NL HE MTT: KK on AAX board in 4-bet pot

[fundiver199]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

5

Game Options

1. Turbo

Currency

$

Game is a 5$ 18-man SnG on pokerstars. Only had 3 hands on either opponent, so they were unknowns. As we all know, its a rule of online poker, that whenever we have the cowboys and get action, there will always be an ace on the flop. This one is a little different though, since there were two aces on the flop and three on the turn. What is your river decision, and do you agree with my line on the earlier streets?

PokerStars, $4.52 + $0.48 - Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (3 ante) - 8 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/hand-converter.php

UTG: 1,471 (74 bb)
UTG+1: 1,411 (71 bb)
MP: 922 (46 bb)
MP+1: 3,129 (156 bb)
CO: 1,461 (73 bb)
BU (Hero): 1,461 (73 bb)
SB: 1,471 (74 bb)
BB: 2,174 (109 bb)

Pre-Flop: (54) Hero is BTN with K♦ K♠
UTG raises to 40, 3 players fold, CO 3-bets to 80, Hero 4-bets to 260, 3 players fold, CO calls 180

Flop: (614) 7♣ A♠ A♣ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (614) A♦ (2 players)
CO bets 200, Hero calls 200

River: (1,014) 6♠ (2 players)
CO bets 500, Hero?

 

[Andyreas]

This one is a little different though, since there were two aces on the flop and three on the turn.

That sums up to 5 aces! 🤣

He could have an ace and be slowplaying his trips/quads but maybe he has a pocket pair too and assumes chances are unlikely you have an Ace either. 🤔

I agree on checking back on flop and calling the turn.

Now he bets again for half pot. I guess I would call here. Of course he could have the quads but then I also wanna see it. 😅
If you call and loose, you still have around 25 BBs since it's very early in the SnG. But if he shows something like TT+, you win a huge pot.

My guess would be Queens for him, in case you called?

One could also jam the river and either bluff for the ace or assume he doesn't have one and you win the hand. But not sure if he'd fold for 500 additional chips. 🤔

 

[fundiver199]

One could also jam the river and either bluff for the ace or assume he doesn't have one and you win the hand. But not sure if he'd fold for 500 additional chips. 🤔

Pretty sure a better hand is not folding, since the only better hand is quads, which is the nuts. But maybe a jam can get called by worse?

 

[Andyreas]

But maybe a jam can get called by worse?

Yes, that was my idea. Of course you could be jamming into the nuts but quads are always quite unlikely. 🙂

 

[wavetune]

the hero had to pick up a good bank, there are any pocket pairs or even maybe J J or Q Q

 

[300HPGOD]

Love this hand, thank you for posting it because I think it is another hand, where I have said this before, that we could talk for hours about this hand and go back and forth and come up with all sorts of scenarios.

To start I dont disagree at all with how you played the hand. In fact, I am not sure if there is another way to play the hand other than how you played it with 4 betting (although maybe we can size up there since our target was a 3 bettor so they are more likely to call which is what we want and get a little more in the middle/value) and then checking flop and with that turn card just calling to keep their smaller boats in and also be weary of the quad potential.

In analyzing the river decision which is a doozie, I think we have to start with looking at pre flop. I understand we know nothing about them but we have to assign some thought to what we have seen so far. What hands is villain min 3 betting with here? We know by the river its not AA so are they min raising 99-QQ here? I've seen it before but its weird to me to not 3 bet to a more "normal" sizing there to keep others behind from not getting involved with a hand where over cards come. Then we have to think about what does villain think our 4 bet range is? I would think they would believe its something like big Ax and big pocket pairs. Cant see them thinking we have KJ or something like that. With that thought villain then knows by the turn we at minimum have a boat. They, if bluffing, are now trying to get a boat at minimum to fold which in a normal $5 tourney is usually not easy although I dont play too many $5.

The sick part of this is that I feel if villain had Ax they would play this hand exactly how they played it and if they planned on the turn to bluff us for whatever reason then they would also play the hand in this way with these bet sizings. With that and only playing against them for 3 hands I don't think anyone (hope Im wrong because I cant) can give an answer here other than you just go with what you feel like at the moment. This would be hand where I think my gut would tell me fold but my brain would tell me call and usually my gut is right but I think guessing how I would play with this spot if I were to face it I would probably call it and make them have it. For the record no reason to raise here as what worse will call us, I would think even QQ would fold to a raise so if we raise we are only getting called by Ax which is all we lose to here.

Really interested in what others say, you say, and the final outcome. Great hand to post!

 

[duqnuk]

Interesting hand... My guess would be he's holding QQ or at least JJ (but JJ it's unlikely tho)

The only possible hands he could be betting with that could beat you would be ATs+. But as it said in this post before, it's very unlikely he hits quads.

I agree with your post-flop decisions. I guess a jam would be a good play here, but I would only call the river (depending on the stage of the MTT aswell)

Nice hand!

 

[fundiver199]

Thanks for the comments. I just called the river, and I am still not really sure, if that is leaving some chips on the table, due to what Bart Hansson call "reverse pot odds". Meaning that the Villain would be getting such a good price, that they are not folding any smaller pocket pair. Not much chance they would have called with this hand though

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[dallam]

UTG raises to 2bb which is very small and bad view, I think that all the hands which could go for 2bb is needed to be folded, and at least this person should put 2.5bbs on the line.
CO made a totally off min-3bet which is not targetting anything, leaving his range still wide open so as the party - and at this point there were maybe an open and a 3bet, but the pot is incredibely small, so any proper hands could wake up with a 4bet to actually drive this party to somewhere and make some value from it - .

We are the next from BTN and as I tried to investigate, with any proper hands we could take this into a direction. As I can't see any strenght in opps moves, I would put many Axs, KQs+, 99+ in our 3-bet range, since we have the position, and I believe with your 4-bet sizing we even going to have a free street at least, cause almost all of the times if any of the two calls will not fire on the flop. So we're having right now a solid combination and a position advantage as well.

Flop brought two Aces, which is always a risk to the Kings, but nice to see actually two of them cause it reducing the chances to have another one, and put opponent a spot where he can't really raise each of the streets because weaker combinations may not follow.
When the Turn hit another A its now locked to you to call all the raises off no matter what. Of course who would imagine to see such a well-balanced bets on Turn and River, and we can start to asking ourselves that opp is capable to min 3-bet with weak Axs and calling the 4-bet? And the answer is definitely.
So even tho we could be drawing dead, Kings are ahead of every single non A combinations so every pocket pairs or x7-s which means we simply can't fold when opp puts us to a Quads and only.
However the whole action was so off, that it's totally understandable to 'just' call the Turn, and 'just' call the River, opp found a nice way to make value us from this hand if it's going into our way, so thanks for the bets.

I would also widen my calling range down to 1010 and +. As 99 and 88 could took this line, maybe even smaller pockets, while KK QQ would act so much different pre (not min 3-betting) only JJ gets there so our calling range is: 1010, JJ, QQ, KK, obviously Axs max value.

 

[dallam]

We know by the river its not AA so are they min raising 99-QQ here? I've seen it before but its weird to me to not 3 bet to a more "normal" sizing there to keep others behind from not getting involved with a hand where over cards come. Then we have to think about what does villain think our 4 bet range is? I would think they would believe its something like big Ax and big pocket pairs. Cant see them thinking we have KJ or something like that. With that thought villain then knows by the turn we at minimum have a boat. They, if bluffing, are now trying to get a boat at minimum to fold which in a normal $5 tourney is usually not easy although I dont play too many $5.

We are really deep. I think in general the min 3-bet is not appropriate here. I not only see UTG happily call this off, but several players could join, and in general we don't want to make multiway pots if its avoidable. Also pretty sure that the QQ is the exact hand which would appear with a bigger raise, since its behaving bad to the A and K as well, but really strong pre combination to have 50-50 with AK and if there're no Aces and Kings, may remain as strong. For that reason, I believe QQ is not in this range, only JJ and -.

Then we have to think about what does villain think our 4 bet range is? I would think they would believe its something like big Ax and big pocket pairs. Cant see them thinking we have KJ or something like that. With that thought villain then knows by the turn we at minimum have a boat. They, if bluffing, are now trying to get a boat at minimum to fold which in a normal $5 tourney is usually not easy although I dont play too many $5.

The sick part of this is that I feel if villain had Ax they would play this hand exactly how they played it and if they planned on the turn to bluff us for whatever reason then they would also play the hand in this way with these bet sizings. With that and only playing against them for 3 hands I don't think anyone (hope Im wrong because I cant) can give an answer here other than you just go with what you feel like at the moment. This would be hand where I think my gut would tell me fold but my brain would tell me call and usually my gut is right but I think guessing how I would play with this spot if I were to face it I would probably call it and make them have it.

Our hand is pretty visible to the River I agree. And I also agree that Axs could put this exact line, so that's why I could not say to shove here. Also not playing 5$ SnG-s but if we have a KK its actually a hero fold still to the Quads, so opp really put ourselves into a big decision.
However as we have the second possible best combination, and all the pre weirdness move comes from the villain, I believe since we not even risking our tournament life here (could be leaving with 25bbs) its just a call without thinking it over. It gaves us a great note, great possible prize, great reputation since we not going for extra value making call only worse combinations and both hands will be exposed, so every single move in this party ships us to this direction, and probably that's why your guts told here to do, and that's why most of us make a call even tho, there's always a chance to...

 

[Andyreas]

Not much chance they would have called with this hand though

My god. 🤣

When I see such outcomes, I wonder how often I've been bluffed away out of the pot with rubbish. 🙈

 

[ADRI7HO]

Since there is no information about the opponents, it is worthwhile to act on the basis of what is seen, and it suggests that the one A is out at CO, or he also has a split pair from KK to up to 77 pairs (but then CO has a full).
Without information, the intuition remains here to catch the bluff or fold (reraising is pointless because it will only be given with a right hand).

 

[eetenor]

Game is a 5$ 18-man SnG on PokerStars. Only had 3 hands on either opponent, so they were unknowns. As we all know, its a rule of online poker, that whenever we have the cowboys and get action, there will always be an ace on the flop. This one is a little different though, since there were two aces on the flop and three on the turn. What is your river decision, and do you agree with my line on the earlier streets?

PokerStars, $4.52 + $0.48 - Hold'em No Limit - 10/20 (3 ante) - 8 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/hand-converter.php

UTG: 1,471 (74 bb)
UTG+1: 1,411 (71 bb)
MP: 922 (46 bb)
MP+1: 3,129 (156 bb)
CO: 1,461 (73 bb)
BU (Hero): 1,461 (73 bb)
SB: 1,471 (74 bb)
BB: 2,174 (109 bb)

Pre-Flop: (54) Hero is BTN with K♦ K♠
UTG raises to 40, 3 players fold, CO 3-bets to 80, Hero 4-bets to 260, 3 players fold, CO calls 180

Flop: (614) 7♣ A♠ A♣ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (614) A♦ (2 players)
CO bets 200, Hero calls 200

River: (1,014) 6♠ (2 players)
CO bets 500, Hero?

If we look at the ranges in a 4 bet pot vs standard UTG as initial open - you would be targeting QQ JJ for value on the river villain dependent so exploit is raise river and decide on notes on V