$5.5 NLHE Deep Stacked: Pocket Ks, what to do?

[tommygunz]

$5.5 NL HE Deep Stacked: Pocket Ks, what to do?

1,950 player MTT, about 1,200 players remaining, I had pocket kings in 6th position, blinds at $50/$100, my stack sat at $3,675. Two in front limped in, I only raised to $300, button and both blinds fell, both limpers called, pot then sat at $1,050.

Flop of 2,3,Q rainbow. Both limpers checked, I bet $500, limper no. 1 (who had about an equal stack to mine) raised to $1,300, and limper no. 2 (who had a $15K stack) raised all-in. Limper no. 2 - the big stack - had shown a history of wild wagering, calling (not raising, calling) significant pre-flop all-ins with K 10 off, J Q suited, etc., and constantly limping in with hands like 8 5 off. My issue here of course is not the Q, but rather that one of these guys had pocket deuces or threes.

If I had just been up against one person I probably would have commited everything and hoped for the best, but up against two players, both of whom check-raised me, I just didn't like my odds. So I folded, as did the limper no. 1 (the player who check-raised me to $1300). I probably should have pre-floped raised to $500, but was the fold correct given the fact that this big-stack player played so loosely? I know technically the answer is yes, but given the loose nature of the big stack - and plus the fact that I was far from the money - I think maybe sometimes it's best to take a chance and try and build a stack. Note, though, I still had chips to play ($2,875), but I did end up busting out about 20 hands later. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Rldetheflop]

well first of all yes i think the pf raise was very weak but as played here are my thoughts. I think this is a fold here because the first limper that check raised you acts behind your all in decision. the Laggy big stack could have QJ and your ahead but could also have Q3 or Q2. not so much worried about set of 2s or 3s from him as a LAG would be raising those hands pf. but a set of 2s or 3s is definitely possible from limper no. 1 and he is yet to act. Obviously he didnt have the set seeing as how he folded but he could have and you dont know at this point. I think more likely limper no 1 had a pp 77-99 or so and was looking you up in case you were just c betting with your AK.

Also I would like to state that I am more of a Stt'er than Mtt'er so this might be just the opportunity to build a big stack that experienced Mtt'ers look for.
I am interested in hearing what others have to say about this hand.

 

[djkismet]

well first of all yes i think the pf raise was very weak but as played here are my thoughts. I think this is a fold here because the first limper that check raised you acts behind your all in decision. the Laggy big stack could have QJ and your ahead but could also have Q3 or Q2. not so much worried about set of 2s or 3s from him as a LAG would be raising those hands pf. but a set of 2s or 3s is definitely possible from limper no. 1 and he is yet to act. Obviously he didnt have the set seeing as how he folded but he could have and you dont know at this point. I think more likely limper no 1 had a pp 77-99 or so and was looking you up in case you were just c betting with your AK.

Also I would like to state that I am more of a Stt'er than Mtt'er so this might be just the opportunity to build a big stack that experienced Mtt'ers look for.
I am interested in hearing what others have to say about this hand.

I agree that the raise was pretty weak you want to raise to about 5-6 big blinds here to get them off their marginal hands or small PP although at this point in the tourney i would say i would request time and really think about this its a tough one cus there is a very good chance yer up against Q2/3 suited especially from a laggy fish. or yer lookin at Q8-k also. this is a tough one and id have to see how quick they made the bet in relation to how much time they have used before or if i had seen him snap shove a another players raise and saw a bluff maybe. this is a pretty tough call but im pretty sure i would make this call here but am very interested in what the more experienced players around here have to say on the matter.

 

[bhood1776]

You ran into a perfect situation here for a MTT. You got the loosest player at the table to limp in a hand when you have a monster. As has been stated before your preflop should have been much bigger as you very well could have gotten the first limper to fold and been HU when the fish. Even after that I think with your half pot bet on the flop looks like a c-bet. The first limper was looking you up with the reraise here and this is when you lost control of the hand. With something close to a pot size flop bet (say 950) your going to get the first guy to fold and then get reraised by the LAG who most likely had Q 10 or QJ. I'm pretty sure he hit the Q, but I don't think you have to worry to much about Q2 or Q3. With the way the hand played out I don't think your fold was bad, but you should have never lost control of the hand with a pretty dry flop and all under cards.

 

[Poof]

The pf raise was weak, but I think at that point when re-raised on the flop I would have shoved, but I bust out of these things regularly.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

Plz make it 500-600 preflop.

I still woulda shoved the flop anyway.

 

[Kuberr]

That's really tough to fold, but I think you made a good call by folding. Knowing who was in front of you and behind you pre-flop should have made you bet more. But I would say Limper No. 2 was just pressuring you.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Typically in MTT play you obviously want to avoid getting yourself into spots where you have no idea where you're at (tough decisions).. & obviously you could've had an effect on this by raising more than 3bb pre.

Answer to the post flop dilemna... who the f knows.... I've come across so much super bad play in micros lately (ie. MSOP's) that I would put them on anything (I've seen 54o calling down a big reraise on flop in multiway pot, then 2nd caller when turn brought a '4', and was 3rd heart, AKx flop.... soooo... who the f knows?? Make things easier on yourself by not getting into the spot in the first place (if poss.,.. & here I believe it was possible.. especially if this idiot's been willing to get it ai w KT in early levels).

 

[Poof]

Typically in MTT play you obviously want to avoid getting yourself into spots where you have no idea where you're at (tough decisions).. & obviously you could've had an effect on this by raising more than 3bb pre.

Answer to the post flop dilemna... who the f knows.... I've come across so much super bad play in micros lately (ie. MSOP's) that I would put them on anything (I've seen 54o calling down a big reraise on flop in multiway pot, then 2nd caller when turn brought a '4', and was 3rd heart, AKx flop.... soooo... who the f knows?? Make things easier on yourself by not getting into the spot in the first place (if poss.,.. & here I believe it was possible.. especially if this idiot's been willing to get it ai w KT in early levels).

But wwyd?
I am curious as I consider you a good player, as I stated if I found myself in that situation I would shove.

 

[salex77]

Re :KK

I think I would have raised more than 3x UG prob 5x especially given the previous play of your opponents that were loose players like the limpers!Also I think I would taken my chances here in the spot to build a stack regardless depending on the chips and type of tourney.

 

[jaded848]

I wouldn't let this go. Sets of 2's and 3's are unlikely, one of them probably has a strong Q, maybe even AQ, but you are ahead of all that. And since your flop bet looks like a cbet, the raiser could be bluffing you thinking you missed.