$4.40 NLHE MTT Bounty: Sickening bad beat deep in the tourney

[Satiivas]

Hi,

this time I am not going to hide the results, I want to show the hand in its whole glory.
I understand, that this was just a horrible horrible bad beat, but my question is if I could have done anything better, particularly if I should have even called the flop shove without a club in my hand.

4.40 Bounty Builder, 67/2678 players left. The villain had a ~14$ bounty, so 14x the starting bounty.


pokerstars, $3.92 + $0.48 - Hold'em No Limit - 2,500/5,000 (800 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 178,777 (36 bb)
MP: 377,362 (75 bb)
MP+1: 664,085 (133 bb)
CO: 228,964 (46 bb)
BU (Hero): 194,308 (39 bb)
SB: 316,936 (63 bb)
BB: 78,688 (16 bb)

Pre-Flop: (13,100) Hero is BTN with A♠ A♥
UTG raises to 10,000, 3 players fold, Hero 3-bets to 30,000, 2 players fold, UTG calls 20,000

Flop: (73,100) 8♣ Q♣ K♣ (2 players)
UTG bets 147,977 (all-in), Hero calls 147,977

Turn: (369,054) 3♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (369,054) 2♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 369,054

Showdown:
UTG shows 4♣ 5♣ (a flush, King high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 22%, Flop: 96%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

BU (Hero) shows A♠ A♥ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 78%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

UTG wins 369,054

 

[eetenor]

Hi,

this time I am not going to hide the results, I want to show the hand in its whole glory.
I understand, that this was just a horrible horrible bad beat, but my question is if I could have done anything better, particularly if I should have even called the flop shove without a club in my hand.

4.40 Bounty Builder, 67/2678 players left. The villain had a ~14$ bounty, so 14x the starting bounty.


PokerStars, $3.92 + $0.48 - Hold'em No Limit - 2,500/5,000 (800 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 178,777 (36 bb)
MP: 377,362 (75 bb)
MP+1: 664,085 (133 bb)
CO: 228,964 (46 bb)
BU (Hero): 194,308 (39 bb)
SB: 316,936 (63 bb)
BB: 78,688 (16 bb)

Pre-Flop: (13,100) Hero is BTN with A♠ A♥
UTG raises to 10,000, 3 players fold, Hero 3-bets to 30,000, 2 players fold, UTG calls 20,000

Flop: (73,100) 8♣ Q♣ K♣ (2 players)
UTG bets 147,977 (all-in), Hero calls 147,977

Turn: (369,054) 3♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (369,054) 2♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 369,054

Showdown:
UTG shows 4♣ 5♣ (a flush, King high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 22%, Flop: 96%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

BU (Hero) shows A♠ A♥ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 78%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

UTG wins 369,054

Thank you for posting

Yes you can fold the flop if the V is going to shove made flushes which at this buy-in level some will.

Equilab is a great program to use to estimate a villains entire range and then see how much equity we have versus that range.

We are not crushing a shove range here without a read on our V being really weak and shoving non club holding hands

Hope this helps

 

[300HPGOD]

Pre flop is fine imo opinion so I will jump to the flop. In game this harder to do since we are in the heat of the moment and we are naturally excited over aces in our hand but we have to think about this objectively without thinking about our hand for a second and only range the opponent first. I dont think villain jams here with flushes unless it is small flush which I would think they would have (shows what I know) since why would they want a fold here if they have the nut flush or close to it. I dont think villain is doing this as a bluff into a 3 bettor though and I dont think they do this with just one pair hands. I am thinking they are doing this with minimum pair and a club. Against those hands we are very close to even within a few %. Given the odds we get making the call it is correct to call given our equity if they have those hands.

Tournament life does have to be factored into this though so I can see making a fold if you thought that is what they had. If I dont think this is ever pure air, once in a while a flush, rest of the time pair and flush draw and then also two pair I can see a fold here. Not sure what the equity is against totality of range (plus you would have to weight them as well because in my mind the pair and the flush draw show up here much more often than a made flush) but it may be enough to overcome the price and a solver may say fold this. In game I think about it for sure and probably click the call button but I am not sure that is right. Taking the time to look at the hand and write about it here I think there is nothing wrong with folding if we are in fact sure this is never air and never worse than pair and flush draw.

 

[fundiver199]

If the guy can show up with 54s after opening UTG and then calling a 3-bet out of position, then he can have a ton of other random junk, that he is turning into a wild bluff. A8 with the A of clubs, KJ with the J of clubs, QT with the T of clubs, the list is endless. So I think, you made the right decision here, and you were just unlucky to run into the top of his range. It is kind of close though, and I could certainly not consider it a big mistake to fold either.

 

[Jon Poker]

Pretty gross spot for villan to just open rip 2x pot OOP...but I don't think I am folding for 30ish bb here. Villan SHOULD never be open shoving this board with two pair or a flopped flush. It loses them value unless you yourself have a strong enough holding to make the call. You could certainly consider the fold here without a club, just find a better spot to take a spazzes money -- but thus action post flop is going to induce me to call. The rest is what it is.

Edit:: you also gave villan a good price preflop - in position I generally go 3.3x when 3betting fools - and I size it down when stacks are much shorter.

 

[fundiver199]

Just want to add, that if we assign him some kind of reasonable range for opening UTG and then calling a 3-bet out of position with a 36BB stack, there really should not be a ton of combos, we are behind to. With the K and Q of clubs on the board, the only kind of reasonable flush for him to show up with is AJ of clubs exactly so a whopping one combo.

KK and QQ we expect to usually just rip it preflop with this stack size, so sets should only be 3 combos of 88. KQo should absolutely fold to our 3-bet in this configuration, and KQs is only 3 combos. So there are like a whopping 7 reasonable combos, we lose to, and none of them should be played as an open jam on the flop.

In this case he did in fact show up with something totally unreasonable, which unfortunately had us beat. But its one of those, where if he is going to make such massive mistakes preflop, and then hit an absolutely perfect flop, then he needs to get paid. So when a hand like this happen to me, I find comfort in knowing, that in the long run I am going to absolutely crush a player like this.

 

[kkonicke]

Preflop, I would make the 3bet slightly larger...probably 35k. I tend to. Even with a premium hand, I tend to charge more to see a flop when out of position. On the flop, I think you have to eat this one. It's a really annoying play by him, I absolutely despise the donk jam. But this type of play gets made by a guy with 2 pair, sets, low flushes, etc. Once in a while he might have like aq one club or something in which case you're barely a favorite. In my experience people very rarely hard bluff on a monotone board.

 

[FernA9ndo]

Correct decision, just really good flop for villain.

 

[Badday94]

The fact he called to your 3 bet with 4 5 suited is something else, then flopped a flush... Either decision you make here is fine. I would have made the call also, a fold is ok also even if you are ahead and he bluffs some draw and you live to see another day. Unlucky, what more is there to say

 

[slicheri93]

ouch that is really sick! the call already and he just flops the world... disgusting

 

[Cinhos_2000]

Yeah, it's really annoying when players like these end up owning people who play correctly, but that's poker. As said above there shouldn't be many hands that beat you because you reraised him (he was UTG, so your raise is even stronger than usual) pre flop. I think you made the correct call, his bounty was really high and villain would most likely have either top pair or nut flush draw in a situation like this, so you'd be ahead. It's really frustrating to go this deep and losing to that, but I'm sure you will have other opportunities to cash big. Don't forget to take notes on players like him.