$4.10 NLHE STT Bounty: Can we get away from queens here?

[ManicLombax]

Second hand in the tournament so no reads. Small alarm bells going off with the tiny 3-bet. Huge alarm bells going off with the small 5-bet but I can't find the fold button. I'm thinking "well maybe he has AK and I'm getting the right odds to flip now".

Do you fold or call at any point in this sequence, or just ship it and hope for the best?


Poker Stars - $3.00+$0.75+0.35 Tournament (#340315291) - Blinds: 10/20 No Limit Hold'em (9 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $1480
BB: $1500
UTG Hero: $1500
MP: $1500
MP+1: $1440
MP+2: $1500
LP: $1440
CO: $1650
BTN: $1490

Pre-flop: ($30) Hero is UTG and dealt
Hero raises to $70, MP raises to $148, 7 folds, Hero raises to $420, MP raises to $812, Hero raises to $1010 (All-in), MP calls $540 (All-in)

 

[PNJs_dad]

Pretty sure you're up against a high pair here. Guessing not JJ either. Probably KK or AA. You may get lucky against a huge donk and see AK here. No reads though I don't mind getting it in this early cause another tourney will be starting right around the corner anyway.

 

[ManicLombax]

Hmm... if I really stretch and say he could have JJ+, AK I have 47% equity. I think next time I'm going to try harder to find the fold button here though. Without any reads that's a pretty wide range for the small 5-bet. Seems like for most players it's going to be KK+.

I think this is one of those instances where I should be trying to find a reason to fold, and I was trying to find a reason to shove instead.

 

[MrEpic94]

Pretty sure you're up against a high pair here. Guessing not JJ either. Probably KK or AA. You may get lucky against a huge donk and see AK here. No reads though I don't mind getting it in this early cause another tourney will be starting right around the corner anyway.

thats pretty terrible reasoning.

I just call the 148 3 bet and see a flop. Im pretty sure we can outplay our opponent post flop and it is earlier so pretty much always going to be AA/KK here unless villian is retarded which we dont know.

 

[ManicLombax]

I just call the 148 3 bet and see a flop. Im pretty sure we can outplay our opponent post flop and it is earlier so pretty much always going to be AA/KK here unless villian is retarded which we dont know.

I thought about that. So when the flop comes J52 rainbow, then what? I still have QQ and I still think he very possibly AA/KK. I think I'm happy if I flop a Q and that's about it. If an A or K comes at least I can feel good getting away I suppose.

On the other hand I guess I can just call the 148 bet with set mining odds. If I put him on AA/KK and a Q comes I'm almost always going to stack him.

 

[MrEpic94]

I thought about that. So when the flop comes J52 rainbow, then what? I still have QQ and I still think he very possibly AA/KK. I think I'm happy if I flop a Q and that's about it. If an A or K comes at least I can feel good getting away I suppose.

On the other hand I guess I can just call the 148 bet with set mining odds. If I put him on AA/KK and a Q comes I'm almost always going to stack him.

well if we flop an overpair and get it in, its no better than getting it in pre. obviously we can get away on A/K flops and have great set mine potential. Just saves us a bunch of chips when flop is A/K high in the long run.

+ sometime will try to bluff with AK on a underflop/get it in with JJ whcih may be in his 3 bet range.

 

[MrEpic94]

also his 3 bet range is alot wider than the 5 bet range. just calling a 3bet with QQ means we are way ahead of his range.

 

[PNJs_dad]

thats pretty terrible reasoning.

I just call the 148 3 bet and see a flop. Im pretty sure we can outplay our opponent post flop and it is earlier so pretty much always going to be AA/KK here unless villian is retarded which we dont know.

Wow....millions of bad players out there and you've not met any yet. With no reads this early in the tournament I wouldn't mind getting it in cause most of the idiots haven't been KO'd yet so this very well could be one of those "retarded" villains. I mean in a CC tourney or if I'm more familiar with the opponent I would play accordingly(probably still 4-bet) but against an unknown if he has AA or KK and you don't suck out just say gg and go to the next one. Every time you guys get 3 bet you guys just flatl with QQ? That's pretty weak if you ask me.

 

[ManicLombax]

Yeah... I think most times I'm 4-betting here. This is a STT, so not quite as full of shove donkeys as the $1 90 mans I've been playing. I didn't think too long before 4-betting, but it's the 5-bet that made me stop and think a bit. Most of the idiots who come into a KO and shove in the first 3 hands just shove over, they don't worry about 3 and 5 betting it. If he had 3-bet shoved I would have snap called, fist pumping.

You're right that I can bust out here and get on to another tournament, but I'd rather not if I can help it.

 

[PNJs_dad]

Yeah... I think most times I'm 4-betting here. This is a STT, so not quite as full of shove donkeys as the $1 90 mans I've been playing. I didn't think too long before 4-betting, but it's the 5-bet that made me stop and think a bit. Most of the idiots who come into a KO and shove in the first 3 hands just shove over, they don't worry about 3 and 5 betting it. If he had 3-bet shoved I would have snap called, fist pumping.

You're right that I can bust out here and get on to another tournament, but I'd rather not if I can help it.

Oh I definitely agree in the above situation. I think the villain has AA(65%) or KK(30%) or total donk(5%). But i'm just saying under normal circumstances I go ahead and 4-bet with QQ.

 

[ManicLombax]

So given the donk percentage quotient (DPQ) is so low here, do you just swear and lay down your queens (to the 5-bet), or shove into someone who almost always has you crushed?

 

[MrEpic94]

Wow....millions of bad players out there and you've not met any yet. With no reads this early in the tournament I wouldn't mind getting it in cause most of the idiots haven't been KO'd yet so this very well could be one of those "retarded" villains. I mean in a CC tourney or if I'm more familiar with the opponent I would play accordingly(probably still 4-bet) but against an unknown if he has AA or KK and you don't suck out just say gg and go to the next one. Every time you guys get 3 bet you guys just flatl with QQ? That's pretty weak if you ask me.

I didnt say that it was my standard to flat QQ to every three bet. It depends on villians tendencies. Since we dont know his tendencies or anything about villian then I see no point in putting ourselves in the horrible situation we are in when we four bet and get 5 bet, I would rather wait till I know something about my opponents before I four bet with a hand that is flipping at best against the majority of average players jam range.