33 flop AQA

[Dubstep]

PokerStars - $8+$0.80|1800/3600 Ante 450 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 40.55 BB (VPIP: 41.18, PFR: 31.25, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, hands: 54)
SB: 32.42 BB (VPIP: 21.28, PFR: 18.60, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 47)
BB: 40.41 BB (VPIP: 18.92, PFR: 5.41, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 38)
UTG: 16.83 BB (VPIP: 15.32, PFR: 9.17, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 125)
Hero (CO): 42.04 BB

5 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.13 BB) Hero has 3:spade: 3:club:

fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 1 BB

Flop: (5.13 BB, 2 players) A:spade: Q:spade: A:heart:
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (5.13 BB, 2 players) 2:spade:
BB bets 2 BB, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold

Hero wins 9.13 BB

 

[Dubstep]

Well I think this just looks like a massive bluff when the 2 hits so I re raise. I don't know if theres anything wrong with this hand but maybe there is.

 

[joe777]

The villain could be trying to steal the pot and try to to take advantage on the wet board IMO.Well played nice read.

 

[WiZZiM]

i like the play, but not thrilled to do it vs this type of opponant. I don't think he's thinking, so i just make a small c-bet here usually and take it down that way.

Your play makes perfect snese for you to have an A here. checking flop then raising turn, however as mentioned you really want to be doing these things vs people who are capable of thinking. If he's just a good lag, then i think this line is really great. If he's a fish, then i think it might be best to just KISS and c-bet the flop

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I probably just Cbet the flop and then give up unless I improve.
you had a nice read though. he probably folds small pocket pairs that beat you, as well...

 

[Sohmurr]

I probably just Cbet the flop and then give up unless I improve.
you had a nice read though. he probably folds small pocket pairs that beat you, as well...

I was thinking along the Cbet line too, then your 2nd statement changed my mind. I feel like a Cbet is more likely to get called (like by the small pocket pairs that beat hero), at which point you're pretty screwed. I think OP made the right play as is.

To the OP, just be aware that when you post the actions you took or the results, it can affect how people respond and may influence their advice. If you left out the fact that villain folded, you might have gotten different advice.

 

[horizon12]

I think its typical donk bet in turn, when blank card show , we must him raise, mostly time villain fold sure...

 

[Mordecoke]

Nice play.
Usually if you had an ace you would check on the flop to induce a bluff.
Apparently he checked as well, so he could have an ace as well.
However you put him to the ultimate test by reraising him.
Nice play.
I am curious what you would do if he reraised you or if you simply just called on the turn.

 

[Dubstep]

Nice play.
Usually if you had an ace you would check on the flop to induce a bluff.
Apparently he checked as well, so he could have an ace as well.
However you put him to the ultimate test by reraising him.
Nice play.
I am curious what you would do if he reraised you or if you simply just called on the turn.

I would probly give up:egg:

 

[WiZZiM]

if he re-raises is a super obvious fold. If he just calls we get to check back rivers or fold if he decides to lead at it... simple stuff . The cool thing here is that we still get value from some stuff he can have here, like straight draws or possibly one card flush draws that might also call this raise..

 

[RamdeeBen]

If you think he's trying to bluff the turn why not just call and get another bet on the river from him? I don't understand the raise tbh, he's not going to have many 2x in his range and he certainly isn't folding like ax/Qx - I'd actually be surprised if he folds anything here that beat us, even hands like 55+. It seems unlikely we check behind Ax/QQ if we're trying to be balanced that is, I assume we CB here nearly always. So then to try induce a bluff on the turn and then to raise it we don't ever rep anything here ourselves by raising. Like do we really check behind a nutted hand, then decide to now raise the turn, if so that seems pretty bad to me.

 

[vinylspiros]

If you think he's trying to bluff the turn why not just call and get another bet on the river from him? I don't understand the raise tbh, he's not going to have many 2x in his range and he certainly isn't folding like ax/Qx - I'd actually be surprised if he folds anything here that beat us, even hands like 55+. It seems unlikely we check behind Ax/QQ if we're trying to be balanced that is, I assume we CB here nearly always. So then to try induce a bluff on the turn and then to raise it we don't ever rep anything here ourselves by raising. Like do we really check behind a nutted hand, then decide to now raise the turn, if so that seems pretty bad to me.

^^^my exact thoughts. I would just call and allow him to put in another bet on the river if you think he is bluffing. When we raise this turn we areactually turning our hand into a bluff as i dont see any value in it as worse hands are almost always going to be folding.

 

[bkniefel]

Wow nice play! Looks like someone is on their game = ) Keep it up! I like the final raise on the river.

 

[Dubstep]

ok vinylspiros and ramdebamm I like that idea. it makes sense. but some of the time I don't think about that stuff. sometimes I just have this strong urge that this type of player will do this action... I would have done this play with any two cards.

And think about this. what if 33 picks up the pot 100% of the time on the turn. but if you flat call you get maybe a 1/10 chance you lose.. obviously the first option is more profitable

because you can not value bet the river it is pointless calling the turn bet.

On river he will probly check/fold. and 33 is not a hand I would feel comfy calling with a river barrel.

I think you can flat call this bet only against the LAGS

And maybe only the super lags. maybe not all lags

Well its not pointless calling the turn bet if you think they will bluff another barrel but I would only call if I had that read. I think the default play against a random opponent would be to bet the turn especially cus of draws literally any spade might have a reason to bluff this turn.

And against random unknown opponents I think there is defiantly calls with worst than 33 on the turn for example a flush draw or even over cards depending on which type of fish

And I know there cant be overcards to a flop with an ace lol but I mean some fish call any two cards when the bet 2bb and have to call 3bb.

I don't think using 33 as bluff catcher in a spot where any two cards will work is right play but maybe im wrong.

But I know if you think he is going to barrel/bluff the river 100% of the time it is defiantly profitable to call turn and river im guessing. But I think the right decision on how to play this hand would depend totally on that read and the % of the time you think he would double barrel bluff here compared to the % of times he sucks out on you on the river or check/folds. so its probly a math situation with a big factor on what percentage you think he is capable of barrelling bluffing. for example if he double barrel bluffs with 100% of hands then its probly correct to flat the turn and river. And if he never double barrel bluffs here its best to raise him out But what if he calls your bluff and checks and calls any rivers? ok now im confused

So I think this play also depends on how likely you think your opponent will fold to the turn bet? or maybe im wrong and you actually want calls here?

Or maybe the problem is ive had too many beers lol

 

[vinylspiros]

Over analysis leads to paralysis.

Just think of it this way. What is he raising turn with?

Hmmmm, He either has an ace that he checked flop with to let you catch up. He could have the Q OR he could have made his flush, picked up a flush draw or he could sometimes have a medium PP which is higher than yours.


Besides the above, he has all air. Now, IMO, since its heads up, it is less likely he has any of the above therefor he has mostly air in his range(esp since he didnt 3bet pre).

Now when he decides to bet turn and you raise, what are you trying to achieve?

Are you trying to make him fold a better hand than 33? Are you trying to get value from K high?


You must make it clear to yourself why you are doing what you are doing so that it can make sense.In this hand raising will fold out ALL of his bluffs and semi-bluffs(like flush draws that bricked river) and will only get called by hands that have you beat.

So the only right play here would be either fold or call. Raising is turning your hand into a bluff for no reason and at the same time not allowing him to continue betting(bluffing) river.


IMO ,the best line here is call turn, check /call >f river depending on what hits.

Do you get my point?

 

[Dubstep]

Its clear what im trying to do is to bluff him off now. And I think its the best line no matter what cards you hold is to bet the turn.

I understand all worst hands will fold and good hands+ draws will call. but either way I think it depends on how frequently he double barrel bluffs here. Against unknown opponent I still think making him fold all on turn is the right play. we want him to call with a flush draw so that's +ev and if you fold out all his air that's also +ev UNLESS YOU THINK HE WILL BLUFF RIVER. and also with his air he probly has about 12% equity in the pot. and you can pick up the pot 100% of the time when he has air. Compared to flat calling and losing the pot 1/10 times on the river.. Plus you also risk the chance of losing when you call the river barrel as well. So im guessing there is a certain percentage you need to believe your opponent will bluff the river in order to flat call. for example he double barrel bluffs 50% of rivers so you should call turn and river or he only double barrels in this spot 10% so you should raise the turn and take down the pot.

especially cus of the spade draw on the board it makes even less sense flat calling the turn.

Plus the value you get from picking up the pot 100% of the time plus the value you get from spades calling is enough reason to semi bluff the turn. even if he had a Q or an A I still could have outs.

And I know semi bluffing is meant to be when you have a draw. but whats the opposite when your opponent has the draw and your betting against his odds of completing?

Like protecting your 33 lol

 

[zefs83]

Bad example to follow..Not worth to play..

 

[Rldetheflop]

ok vinylspiros and ramdebamm I like that idea. it makes sense. but some of the time I don't think about that stuff. sometimes I just have this strong urge that this type of player will do this action... I would have done this play with any two cards.

And think about this. what if 33 picks up the pot 100% of the time on the turn. but if you flat call you get maybe a 1/10 chance you lose.. obviously the first option is more profitable

because you can not value bet the river it is pointless calling the turn bet.

On river he will probly check/fold. and 33 is not a hand I would feel comfy calling with a river barrel.

I think you can flat call this bet only against the LAGS

And maybe only the super lags. maybe not all lags

Well its not pointless calling the turn bet if you think they will bluff another barrel but I would only call if I had that read. I think the default play against a random opponent would be to bet the turn especially cus of draws literally any spade might have a reason to bluff this turn.

And against random unknown opponents I think there is defiantly calls with worst than 33 on the turn for example a flush draw or even over cards depending on which type of fish

And I know there cant be overcards to a flop with an ace lol but I mean some fish call any two cards when the bet 2bb and have to call 3bb.

I don't think using 33 as bluff catcher in a spot where any two cards will work is right play but maybe im wrong.

But I know if you think he is going to barrel/bluff the river 100% of the time it is defiantly profitable to call turn and river im guessing. But I think the right decision on how to play this hand would depend totally on that read and the % of the time you think he would double barrel bluff here compared to the % of times he sucks out on you on the river or check/folds. so its probly a math situation with a big factor on what percentage you think he is capable of barrelling bluffing. for example if he double barrel bluffs with 100% of hands then its probly correct to flat the turn and river. And if he never double barrel bluffs here its best to raise him out But what if he calls your bluff and checks and calls any rivers? ok now im confused

So I think this play also depends on how likely you think your opponent will fold to the turn bet? or maybe im wrong and you actually want calls here?

Or maybe the problem is ive had too many beers lol

These were all separate consecutive posts that I merged together. Please refrain from posting several posts in a row. If you feel you have left something out use the edit option please.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

You keep saying you win the pot 100% on the turn by raising, but that's not true. Sometimes he'll have the A or a Q...sure not often but I think the times he has a calling hand are about equal to the times he has air and sucks out on you...so they basically cancel out.

I pretty much agree with vinylspiros analysis on this one. Otherwise you're turning your hand into a bluff which might be effective against 44-77 or 88 but is pointless against all other hands. The combos of strong hands + air far outweigh the combos of small pocket pairs that beat you...so unless you have a really strong read that he has a small pocket pair your line is sub optimal.

 

[Dubstep]

I don't understand why you think it is a bad idea folding out his air? Your only going to make more money if he bluffs again on river.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I don't understand why you think it is a bad idea folding out his air? Your only going to make more money if he bluffs again on river.

well, I can see where you're coming from. But I just think some assumptions that you're making are wrong. (or at least far fetched)

IF you assume that he has air AND you assume that he won't bluff again at the river, then YES, it is best to take this pot down on the turn by eliminating the tiny chance that he sucks out on you. That line of thought is correct if both those assumptions are true.

But in reality, I don't think both of those assumptions will co-exist very often and so we have to design a line that does the best against all possible hands in his range, and against all possible actions he might take.

since somebody could conceivably be holding an A or a Q or 22 and will not be folding it I'd estimate that likelihood roughly cancels out the likelihood of him holding air and then catching one of his outs. So eliminate both of those conditions from our equation (since they cancel out)

and what are we left with?

draws that you are essentially protecting against (value betting your own hand)
small pocket pairs that you are bluffing off the better hand.
air that doesn't improve and MIGHT fire again on the river. (inducing a bluff)

One bonus reason for raising the turn like you did: makes the hand much easier for you to play. no agonizing river decisions. you think you're ahead now, so you go for it, try to win the hand and eliminate making future mistakes.

Wouldn't it suck if you read the situation right, flatted the turn with the intent of "inducing a bluff" on the river, and then the river is something like the and he jams and you fold and he shows you a bluff? This could be avoided by just raising the turn as you did. I don't know if it fully justifies the action, but it does earn a couple of bonus points for the aggressive turn move.

All in all, this has been an interesting hand to evaluate. Many people brought many different points of view and creative line alternatives to a hand that, on the surface to me just looked like a "Cbet then give up" kind of hand. Clearly I need to be more imaginative in thinking about my own game...