$3.40 NLHE STT Turbo: Raise over limp with 88, c-bet safe flop and get min-raised

[pat3392]

$3.40 NL HE STT Turbo: Raise over limp with 88, c-bet safe flop and get min-raised

poker stars $3.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: t1485 49.50 BBs
CO: t1440 48 BBs
BTN: t2943 98.10 BBs
Hero (SB): t1485 49.50 BBs
BB: t1681 56.03 BBs
UTG: t1634 54.47 BBs
UTG+1: t1377 45.90 BBs
MP1: t1455 48.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is SB with 8:club: 8:heart:
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, 4 folds, Hero raises to t120, BB calls t90, 1 fold

Flop: (t270) 4:heart: 9:heart: 4:diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets t150, BB raises to t300, Hero calls t150

Turn: (t870) T:diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t489, Hero folds

I usually complete here to try and hit a set here but I was playing a lot more aggressive today, not sure if it was optimal. I really wasn't sure what to do when he min-raised, not sure what they usually mean.

 

[WiZZiM]

It's a lot better when you make this raise in position, it's not horrible. I tend to mix it up with some raises and completes in this spot. if there are more limpers i'm happier to complete and try to flop the set, but against one the implied odds are lower so im happier raising. However we're OOP, so i'm probabl raising hands as strong as 88+ and probably completing lower hands like 77 and below.

Your decision is made on the flop, your hand is probably good, so just go ahead and ship the chips then and there.

As played i really don't understand the logic behind calling the flop and folding turn. I wouldnt look into the min raise much, bad players do weird stuff. since we have no read the flop play is either, we think we're behind his range/fold, we think we're ahead/shove.

 

[pat3392]

It's a lot better when you make this raise in position, it's not horrible. I tend to mix it up with some raises and completes in this spot. if there are more limpers i'm happier to complete and try to flop the set, but against one the implied odds are lower so im happier raising. However we're OOP, so i'm probabl raising hands as strong as 88+ and probably completing lower hands like 77 and below.

Your decision is made on the flop, your hand is probably good, so just go ahead and ship the chips then and there.

As played i really don't understand the logic behind calling the flop and folding turn. I wouldnt look into the min raise much, bad players do weird stuff. since we have no read the flop play is either, we think we're behind his range/fold, we think we're ahead/shove.

Yeah I realise now the call on the flop was silly.

 

[OzExorcist]

This one is really villain dependent - with some the flop minraise can mean a huge hand, with a lot of others it's almost always a bluff.

I probably just three-bet ship the flop unless you've got a read that the villain is the value minraising type.

Villain only needs to fold about what, 35-40% of the time for this to be +chipEV and I think this is a bluff often enough for that to be viable. Usually we'll be behind when we get called but I think occasionally we'll get called by two overs that think they're priced in or underpairs that put us on something like a big ace.

 

[cjatud2012]

shipping the flop looks good, as Oz says we don't need a fold too often for this to be profitable--

equity if we fold: $2.889
equity if we shove and he folds: $3.834
equity if we shove, he calls, and we win: $6.021
equity if we shove, he calls, and we lose: goose egg.

Our equity against a possible range (obv could be different, but this'll work):

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
265,320 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 9:heart:4:heart:4:diamond:
8c8h 16.89% (44,716 wins, 195 ties)
9*, 4*, 77-55, AA-TT 83.11% (220,409 wins, 195 ties)

If we let x be the amount of time we need a fold--

0 = 3.834*x + (1-x)*(.1689*(6.021-2.889) + .8311*(-2.889))
0 = 3.834*x - 1.872 + 1.872x
1.872 = 5.706x
.328 = x, or 32.8%.

So if we get a fold about a third of the time, we're in good shape here. Probably wasn't totally necessary to calculate all of that, but I'm bored and that was fun, so yeah.

Also, I'm gonna call you out and say that if you expect everyone to reply to all of your threads, you ought to go out and reply to other people's threads as well. 99% of the posts you've made have been in threads that you started yourself. Go out and contribute, give back to the forum! Otherwise people won't be as helpful in the future.

 

[pat3392]

shipping the flop looks good, as Oz says we don't need a fold too often for this to be profitable--

equity if we fold: $2.889
equity if we shove and he folds: $3.834
equity if we shove, he calls, and we win: $6.021
equity if we shove, he calls, and we lose: goose egg.

Our equity against a possible range (obv could be different, but this'll work):

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
265,320 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 9♥4♥4♦
8c8h 16.89% (44,716 wins, 195 ties)
9*, 4*, 77-55, AA-TT 83.11% (220,409 wins, 195 ties)

If we let x be the amount of time we need a fold--

0 = 3.834*x + (1-x)*(.1689*(6.021-2.889) + .8311*(-2.889))
0 = 3.834*x - 1.872 + 1.872x
1.872 = 5.706x
.328 = x, or 32.8%.

So if we get a fold about a third of the time, we're in good shape here. Probably wasn't totally necessary to calculate all of that, but I'm bored and that was fun, so yeah.

Also, I'm gonna call you out and say that if you expect everyone to reply to all of your threads, you ought to go out and reply to other people's threads as well. 99% of the posts you've made have been in threads that you started yourself. Go out and contribute, give back to the forum! Otherwise people won't be as helpful in the future.

ProPokerTools hey? Thanks for showing that handy tool

I haven't been replying in other peoples threads because in reality, I'm a newbie and I don't like it when other newbies give me bad advice. Not so much on this forum, but I find it a little irritating when players are trying to give me advice when it's obvious they have very little experience. I'll start contributing back to the community when I'm more confident that I actually know what I'm talking about, ok?

 

[cjatud2012]

Yeah, ProPokerTools is pretty cool, it's basically Pokerstove but online. It also has non-holdem games, which is probably the best part.

I can understand your feeling about giving/getting bad advice, but I still think it's good for your learning to post, even if you're wrong. If people do disagree, they'll let you know, and you'll learn from that too.

Either way, I'll look forward to seeing you around here more soon!

 

[Rldetheflop]

shipping the flop looks good, as Oz says we don't need a fold too often for this to be profitable--

equity if we fold: $2.889
equity if we shove and he folds: $3.834
equity if we shove, he calls, and we win: $6.021
equity if we shove, he calls, and we lose: goose egg.

Our equity against a possible range (obv could be different, but this'll work):

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
265,320 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 9♥4♥4♦
8c8h 16.89% (44,716 wins, 195 ties)
9*, 4*, 77-55, AA-TT 83.11% (220,409 wins, 195 ties)

If we let x be the amount of time we need a fold--

0 = 3.834*x + (1-x)*(.1689*(6.021-2.889) + .8311*(-2.889))
0 = 3.834*x - 1.872 + 1.872x
1.872 = 5.706x
.328 = x, or 32.8%.

So if we get a fold about a third of the time, we're in good shape here. Probably wasn't totally necessary to calculate all of that, but I'm bored and that was fun, so yeah.

Also, I'm gonna call you out and say that if you expect everyone to reply to all of your threads, you ought to go out and reply to other people's threads as well. 99% of the posts you've made have been in threads that you started yourself. Go out and contribute, give back to the forum! Otherwise people won't be as helpful in the future.

You can always spot the college kids. They love to show their work.

 

[cjatud2012]

Hahaha, the college kid waiting to move in, at least.

 

[Rldetheflop]

ProPokerTools hey? Thanks for showing that handy tool

I haven't been replying in other peoples threads because in reality, I'm a newbie and I don't like it when other newbies give me bad advice. Not so much on this forum, but I find it a little irritating when players are trying to give me advice when it's obvious they have very little experience. I'll start contributing back to the community when I'm more confident that I actually know what I'm talking about, ok?

Just out of curiosity how much experience is necessary to give advice that you find valuable?

 

[pat3392]

Just out of curiosity how much experience is necessary to give advice that you find valuable?

enough so that the person knows what he is talking about