$3.40 NLHE STT Turbo: pre-flop decision against a fish

[cjatud2012]

The initial raiser here is something like 55/25, second villain is ~25/10.

I figure that villain is bad enough that if I hit TPGK I'll be golden and he'll pay me off. The issues are the second villain and my stack size.

Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but what are people's thoughts on this?

Another more general question is how do you approach fish in the early levels?

PokerStars - $3+$0.40|50/100 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: 3,255.00
Hero (BB): 1,915.00
UTG: 1,600.00
CO: 4,400.00
BTN: 2,330.00

SB posts SB 50.00, Hero posts BB 100.00

Pre Flop: (150.00) Hero has J:heart: K:diamond:

fold, CO raises to 200.00, fold, SB calls 150.00, Hero ???

 

[DetroitJimmy]

If it were sooted you could flat maybe getting 5 to 1. Thinking KJ is trap hand even vs. these ranges TPGK has less value against 2 loose opponents.


Honestly I squeeze AI or fold preflop here.

 

[OzExorcist]

I probably ship this - it's hard to give SB credit for much of a hand and your read says we're OK against the initial raiser's range too. Plus we're not in desperate territory yet but we're fast approaching the point where the bigger stacks can push us around so I like taking a shot to build our stack here.

 

[brackdog]

OOP against a biggy, with so few flops I like here, and so many I don't. I'm sure this should a fold even at 5:1. Yet I know I would flat this in a two flicks of a fish's tail.

bd

 

[cjatud2012]

OOP against a biggy, with so few flops I like here, and so many I don't. I'm sure this should a fold even at 5:1. Yet I know I would flat this in a two flicks of a fish's tail.

bd

Well I recognize that I'm playing against a stack that is larger than mine, but what's important is that he is a maniac/fish, so my thought was it was t100 to win the t500 already in the pot plus an additional ~t1700 if I hit TPGK, so that's ~22:1 implied odds. Since I'm 2:1 to hit a pair on the flop, that's gotta be pretty good, right? Admittedly I'm not always going to get paid off, plus I'm out of position which makes it harder to get value, and I'm in a multi-way pot so my TPGK may not be good enough. Still, it's close I think.

To Oz and others, I hadn't really considered a squeeze, it certainly has merit as there's t500 and there's t1800 in my stack, so at least from that perspective it's a good move. However I'm concerned that I won't get many folds from the initial raiser (55/25), and pre-flop my hand doesn't have great equity, even if his range could be pretty wide.

I think I may have talked myself into a fold now that I look closer at it, but still would like to hear other opinions.

 

[OzExorcist]

TBH I hadn't really considered calling: my brain seems to be wired to shove or fold > call in this sort of spot because calling could lead to all sorts of awkward spots postflop - like how do we extract money when we hit? If we hit and lead villain has a chance to get away for free if he whiffs. If we hit and go for a check-raise villain has the chance to foil us by checking behind. Sometimes we'll hit and be outkicked or behind a set / two pair and then there's the matter of the SB getting in the way too. It's just a bit messy and uncertain for my liking.

 

[MediaBLITZ]

Definitely not shoving but me making a call isn't totally out of the question. The smart side of my brain folds but my gambling side wants to see a flop (but not at the risk of my tournament life). But like Oz said, you have to be prepared to deal with a messy situation and get out of gamble gear to nit. If I don't hit that flop dead on then I need to heavily consider getting out.

But more directly, at that stage of the tournament I am pretty content to let the fish swim and will wait for a better opportunity - one that includes position.

 

[OzExorcist]

Unless we flop a straight or some other monster we're still risking our tournament life by calling and planning to get in on flops we hit - anything that can call has at least a few outs on us and there's no guarantee we're even ahead. I just don't think calling reduces our risk all that much. Plus it leaves us open to spots where we can be bluffed off the best hand.

 

[WiZZiM]

This is never a shove preflop against a player we have no idea about really. He's raising wide, meaning he is likely calling wide, too. A call is ok i guess, but even against those ranges, we don't really dominate many hands, so in game, i'd probably just fold it and move on to a more important hand.