$3.40 NLHE STT Turbo: AQ late, raise over 1 limper, BB reraises

[pat3392]

$3.40 NL HE STT Turbo: AQ late, raise over 1 limper, BB reraises

poker stars $3.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 10 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (CO): t1500 M = 50
BTN: t1490 M = 49.67
SB: t1480 M = 49.33
BB: t1500 M = 50
UTG: t1730 M = 57.67
UTG+1: t1500 M = 50
UTG+2: t1300 M = 43.33
MP1: t1500 M = 50
MP2: t1500 M = 50
MP3: t1500 M = 50

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is CO with Q:spade: A:club:
5 folds, MP3 calls t20, Hero raises to t80, 2 folds, BB raises to t220, 1 fold, Hero calls t140

Flop: (t470) 4:heart: 9:club: 6:club: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t240, BB raises to t500, Hero folds

I really did not know what to do when he raised me... I figured that AQ was ahead of his range(I don't give me opponents too much respect at these low games, perhaps a leak) However he could have quite easily had something like 99 and been ahead so re-raising I thought was incorrect.

 

[WiZZiM]

yup, fold it preflop. and why are you betting that flop? What do we expect to get folds from? I'd just be happy he checked, hoping to spike an ace and keep the pot small.

 

[bgomez89]

yup, fold it preflop. and why are you betting that flop? What do we expect to get folds from? I'd just be happy he checked, hoping to spike an ace and keep the pot small.

i agree with everything wizzim said.

 

[pat3392]

yup, fold it preflop. and why are you betting that flop? What do we expect to get folds from? I'd just be happy he checked, hoping to spike an ace and keep the pot small.

fold preflop? I was getting 1:2 on my money so I didn't think that was a good move. Is it kind of like limping with mediocre hands from the SB; I'm getting great odds but not sure where I'm at if I hit my hand?


Yeah I see that the bet on the flop was bad. I guess I was hoping he was passive and missed his hand, which is silly really because the hands he'd fold I'd probably beat at showdown.

 

[cjatud2012]

the thing about playing hands like AQ, AJ, etc. is that they're hard hands to play without the initiative, so you're probably best off folding them in most cases (this even sometimes applies to AK). Calling isn't really awful, especially since you have position, but at this point in the tournament, it's best to conserve your chips and save yourself from making some tough decisions early on. As played, you gotta check back the flop, and that's not me being results oriented.

 

[bgomez89]

fold preflop? I was getting 1:2 on my money so I didn't think that was a good move. Is it kind of like limping with mediocre hands from the SB; I'm getting great odds but not sure where I'm at if I hit my hand?


Yeah I see that the bet on the flop was bad. I guess I was hoping he was passive and missed his hand, which is silly really because the hands he'd fold I'd probably beat at showdown.

Unless villain is a maniac, a lot ofh the time, at this level, people are 3 betting with the top of their range(TT+, AKo/AKs) so you're looking for trouble IMO if you call a 3 bet this early.

 

[OzExorcist]

fold preflop? I was getting 1:2 on my money so I didn't think that was a good move. Is it kind of like limping with mediocre hands from the SB; I'm getting great odds but not sure where I'm at if I hit my hand?

We're in the first level of the game and what we're most interested in doing here is conserving chips. Once the big blind raises we're being asked to commit a significant chunk of those chips and as cj points out we've lost the initiative in the hand.

A couple of things to think about:

- When we call, what kind of flop are we hoping for?
- How many of those flops are going to result in worse hands paying us off?
- How many of those flops have the potential for us to lose our stack to a better hand?
- If villain leads, how many flops can we continue on?

Short of a gin flop like KJT or QQx we're probably hoping for something like Qxx or Axx to be able to continue.

Let's say villain's range is 99+ / AJ+ (we're only 42.7% against that range, FWIW). About the only time we get given action by a worse hand on one of those flops is if it's Axx and villain has an AJ or 99-KK that he can't get away from (often they'll recognise the ace is bad for them and fold). The rest of the time we're either beat or only winning a smallish (in the scheme of things) pot that won't really affect our potential for making the money at the end of the game.

If villain leads out, are we really going to shove over him with air? Again, short of a gin flop we'll have trouble continuing and if villain doesn't lead out we have to be suspicious about why, fearing the check-raise that actually happened in the hand. And again, if we c-bet and villain folds we're only winning a smallish pot.

I know AQ looks like a strong hand and it looks like we're getting good odds preflop but when we think about it there's only a small number of flops against a small number of the villain's potential hands where we really get paid and make the play worthwhile. Sometimes we'll win a small pot and a lot of the time we'll lose a big one, maybe our whole stack. It's hard to make the risk:reward add up.

 

[Rldetheflop]

Lets also not forget that the he 3-bet after you raised over a limper. I think this indicates an even smaller range than Oz suggests which makes it an even worse call pf imo. I dont think there are any hands you are ahead of here and could easily be dominated.

Also as far as not giving your opponents respect at this level, Its too early in the tourney to just assume that everyone is a donk. The majority of them are at this level but there are some decent players too. let the table play a little before making decisions based on this theory.

 

[pat3392]

We're in the first level of the game and what we're most interested in doing here is conserving chips. Once the big blind raises we're being asked to commit a significant chunk of those chips and as cj points out we've lost the initiative in the hand.

A couple of things to think about:

- When we call, what kind of flop are we hoping for?
- How many of those flops are going to result in worse hands paying us off?
- How many of those flops have the potential for us to lose our stack to a better hand?
- If villain leads, how many flops can we continue on?

Short of a gin flop like KJT or QQx we're probably hoping for something like Qxx or Axx to be able to continue.

Let's say villain's range is 99+ / AJ+ (we're only 42.7% against that range, FWIW). About the only time we get given action by a worse hand on one of those flops is if it's Axx and villain has an AJ or 99-KK that he can't get away from (often they'll recognise the ace is bad for them and fold). The rest of the time we're either beat or only winning a smallish (in the scheme of things) pot that won't really affect our potential for making the money at the end of the game.

If villain leads out, are we really going to shove over him with air? Again, short of a gin flop we'll have trouble continuing and if villain doesn't lead out we have to be suspicious about why, fearing the check-raise that actually happened in the hand. And again, if we c-bet and villain folds we're only winning a smallish pot.

I know AQ looks like a strong hand and it looks like we're getting good odds preflop but when we think about it there's only a small number of flops against a small number of the villain's potential hands where we really get paid and make the play worthwhile. Sometimes we'll win a small pot and a lot of the time we'll lose a big one, maybe our whole stack. It's hard to make the risk:reward add up.

Fantastic post, thanks a lot.

 

[Xavier]

You should fold preflop here to the reraise imo.
If you read Moshman's sit n go book he recommends folding hands like AQ to reraises when the blinds are small to preserve your stack.

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

I wouldn't fold it preflop.

In this hand, I would raise preflop, then check because you missed, then fold to his bet.

 

[OzExorcist]

I wouldn't fold it preflop.

In this hand, I would raise preflop, then check because you missed, then fold to his bet.

First, if we're planning to check-fold every time we miss the flop why would we want to commit such a big chunk of our stack preflop? We'll end up with just ace high and no draws on an awful lot of flops and the flops we do hit we won't be guaranteed to get paid - as discussed above, even some of the flops we do hit could be bad for us. So we're risking an awful lot for a very small potential gain if we raise preflop. And that's not even taking into consideration the horrible spot we're in if villain five-bet shoves preflop. Then we have to fold and we've given away maybe a third of our stack.

Second if we check the flop then we see the turn, not fold to the villain's bet. We have position and we got check-raised in this hand. Only way we get to check is if the villain has already checked to us.