$250 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: did I underplay my KK on a flushy board?

[Jacki Burkhart]

early in a deepstacked, freezeout tourney. I've got a tight image, and lots of players are splashing around in most pots.

starting stack is 12k, I have about 11,500 everyone has pretty much a starting stack. blinds are 50/100.

1 player limps in early position, I raise in mid pos to 400 with

button calls, sb calls, limper calls. gulp pot contains 1,700

flop comes

it checks to me I bet 1,000

the sb check raises me to 2,500. gulp. I don't really have a read on him. I can definitely see him having AJ with the or a set, or 2 pair or basically anything because it's early and it's cheap to call and people are donking around in a lot of pots.

I decide to call because I've got the 2nd nut flush draw, and possibly the best hand. though i don't know whether or not I'll be happy to see a spade on the turn or not....maybe the Ace of spades is the only card I really want to see on the turn....

turn is the giving me 2nd nut flush, but I still don't really know where i'm at.

he checks....I should probably fire a bet here in position, but it just doesn't feel right...I wouldn't know what the purpose of my bet was, or whether or not I even want a call. And I'd want to kill myself if he check raised me again. so I check it back.

the river is a total blank. Check check.

He had AJ with no spades.

Did I play the hand way too weak and scared?

 

[kanselau]

early in a deepstacked, freezeout tourney. I've got a tight image, and lots of players are splashing around in most pots.

starting stack is 12k, I have about 11,500 everyone has pretty much a starting stack. blinds are 50/100.

1 player limps in early position, I raise in mid pos to 400 with

button calls, sb calls, limper calls. gulp pot contains 1,700

flop comes

it checks to me I bet 1,000

the sb check raises me to 2,500. gulp. I don't really have a read on him. I can definitely see him having AJ with the or a set, or 2 pair or basically anything because it's early and it's cheap to call and people are donking around in a lot of pots.

I decide to call because I've got the 2nd nut flush draw, and possibly the best hand. though i don't know whether or not I'll be happy to see a spade on the turn or not....maybe the Ace of spades is the only card I really want to see on the turn....

turn is the giving me 2nd nut flush, but I still don't really know where i'm at.

he checks....I should probably fire a bet here in position, but it just doesn't feel right...I wouldn't know what the purpose of my bet was, or whether or not I even want a call. And I'd want to kill myself if he check raised me again. so I check it back.

the river is a total blank. Check check.

He had AJ with no spades.

Did I play the hand way too weak and scared?

I like the way you played this to the turn , I don't think betting the turn is a good idea because we need just a little bit more information about villains hand.
Our check controls the pot size if were beat and leaves our range wide for future betting on the river. If villain hasn't flopped it then we probably are not getting two streets of value anyway.

We however lost a lot of value on the river , villain is not checking turn and river with the nuts, so we must bet.

 

[hffjd2000]

I think what you did is textbook. The problem is his play. He check raised you on the flop with a raised that is affordable and no draw at all. Whats worse is he check on the turn. Thats why, really hard to read fish. They play unpredictable/weird poker.

 

[Arjonius]

If you think his c/r range is what you said, it seems somewhat conservative not to bet both the turn and river. You're ahead of everything except the AsJ, and there's probably a reasonable chance to get value from tho other holdings.

Fwiw, it also seems possible he played hands like QsTs, 7s6s, etc. that may not be all that easy for him to get away from despite the single-suited board

 

[aznman08]

Is this online or live tournament?

Fwiw, it also seems possible he played hands like QsTs, 7s6s, etc. that may not be all that easy for him to get away from despite the single-suited board

I'm thinking this as well. We might get a Qs to call the river with a thin value bet. 7s6s is not possible since 6s is on the board. (9s-7s ends up beating us with a straight flush) but even with that its less likely.

 

[Arjonius]

7s6s is not possible since 6s is on the board.

My bad; should have been Ts9s

 

[Poker Orifice]

why are we checking the river?

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

why are we checking the river?

lack of gumption? no cajones?

I guess I felt at the time it was too thin a value bet; which is sometimes correct to pass up in tourneys....unlikely to get called very often unless beat.

of course....looking back it just seems scared.

 

[RamdeeBen]

I think checking back the turn is ok, although I think it's a really really terrible check back on the river. I'm 100% betting the river for value as we always have the best hand given the way he played the hand.

 

[RamdeeBen]

lack of gumption? no cajones?

I guess I felt at the time it was too thin a value bet; which is sometimes correct to pass up in tourneys....unlikely to get called very often unless beat.

of course....looking back it just seems scared.

We have second nut flush draw, given the way he played it's very unlikely he has the Ace spade so there's nothing thin about betting here. It's not like we're betting KK with no spade. There are also plenty of hands he can call which we beat and there's zero we lose too given we're pretty sure he never has the Ace spade so it should always be an easy river value bet imo. If we think he has AJ with no spade or a mediocre J with a spade or sets then we can bet pretty small given him a good price to ensure we get some value.

 

[mariocep]

was a very conservative game, and if you do not know with who pays the villain should make a mini raise, play not so bad, but not exploited the potential of your card

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Would have checked turn as well and river is defenitely a bet.

What is more interesting the sizing on river tbh.

Like ramdeebam said what sizing do get paid of.

 

[eidikos]

shove in the flop after the reraise,i think,its the best move for you

 

[Karozi615]

it seems fine but I don't see why betting the turn would be such a bad thing, you do have the second nuts. If your in this same scenario later with 7d5d and your forced to bet the turn then people are going to recognize that you check back hands with show down value and play passively.
passive play = lost value

sure he could have the ace of spades, but if you become the type of player who can just 3barrel with the 2nd nuts you'll get called by worse a lot and get a ton of value ITLR

 

[Karozi615]

Also, shoving the flop is a really terrible fishy choice ^ that's the last thing you should do

 

[Karozi615]

Also you should have bombed the river and potted it...you compounded your turn check error by losing even more value on the river
the worst part is you probably had to table your hand, and this one hand tells me a lot about you as a player
There is unspoken equity in not having to show hands. This is an example of a hand I really would not want to table

 

[duggs]

Bet turn bet river, if he is the type of opponent to raise naked Jx we should also give strong consideration to 3betting flop

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

the worst part is you probably had to table your hand, and this one hand tells me a lot about you as a player
There is unspoken equity in not having to show hands. This is an example of a hand I really would not want to table

I completely agree with this part. this was how I knew I misplayed the hand...I was embarassed to turn it over.

 

[long_bong]

Is this a $250.00 buyin or a $250 Gtd...?

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Is this a $250.00 buyin or a $250 Gtd...?

$250 buy in live tourney

 

[T0mmmi]

early in a deepstacked, freezeout tourney. I've got a tight image, and lots of players are splashing around in most pots.

starting stack is 12k, I have about 11,500 everyone has pretty much a starting stack. blinds are 50/100.

1 player limps in early position, I raise in mid pos to 400 with

button calls, sb calls, limper calls. gulp pot contains 1,700

flop comes

it checks to me I bet 1,000

the sb check raises me to 2,500. gulp. I don't really have a read on him. I can definitely see him having AJ with the or a set, or 2 pair or basically anything because it's early and it's cheap to call and people are donking around in a lot of pots.

I decide to call because I've got the 2nd nut flush draw, and possibly the best hand. though i don't know whether or not I'll be happy to see a spade on the turn or not....maybe the Ace of spades is the only card I really want to see on the turn....

turn is the giving me 2nd nut flush, but I still don't really know where i'm at.

he checks....I should probably fire a bet here in position, but it just doesn't feel right...I wouldn't know what the purpose of my bet was, or whether or not I even want a call. And I'd want to kill myself if he check raised me again. so I check it back.

the river is a total blank. Check check.

He had AJ with no spades.

Did I play the hand way too weak and scared?

Hi !

After reading the about I would definitely say that you played it quite well.

The thing is when he Re-Raise you with pair off Jacks + Ace kicker on Flushy board he was probably trying to get info if you already had Flush or not. ( in my opinion if you went AI after the Re-Raise , he would have fold)

The thing is that both of you played it quite small ball afterwards as 4th Spade came on Turn and I guess both of you were not sure about opponents cards so you just Check>Check.

I would never say that you underplayed you KK when I look at it as I was playing it as you have to expect unexpected in early phase of MTT with lot of crazy playing when that kind of board comes up


Good Luck @TABles !

 

[long_bong]

early in a deepstacked, freezeout tourney. I've got a tight image, and lots of players are splashing around in most pots.

starting stack is 12k, I have about 11,500 everyone has pretty much a starting stack. blinds are 50/100.

1 player limps in early position, I raise in mid pos to 400 with

button calls, sb calls, limper calls. gulp pot contains 1,700

flop comes

it checks to me I bet 1,000

the sb check raises me to 2,500. gulp. I don't really have a read on him. I can definitely see him having AJ with the or a set, or 2 pair or basically anything because it's early and it's cheap to call and people are donking around in a lot of pots.

I decide to call because I've got the 2nd nut flush draw, and possibly the best hand. though i don't know whether or not I'll be happy to see a spade on the turn or not....maybe the Ace of spades is the only card I really want to see on the turn....

turn is the giving me 2nd nut flush, but I still don't really know where i'm at.

he checks....I should probably fire a bet here in position, but it just doesn't feel right...I wouldn't know what the purpose of my bet was, or whether or not I even want a call. And I'd want to kill myself if he check raised me again. so I check it back.

the river is a total blank. Check check.

He had AJ with no spades.

Did I play the hand way too weak and scared?

When you get check raised on this flop With KK with K of spades a float all day is fine, Always take into account, maybe villain thinks we have the A?

Can never play a pot too passively on this texture of flop with KK. If anything you just controlled the pot and kept yourself out of a difficult value bet call on river.

NH imo

 

[BearPlay]

Apologies, nothing to contribute, but just wanted to say thanks to the skilled players who post HH like these and to the others like missjacki, arj, po, lb, naruto, for their feedback.

Speaking for myself, I always subscribe to these threads and read them again and again, absorbing what I can.

Just wanted to say thanks.

 

[long_bong]

Apologies, nothing to contribute, but just wanted to say thanks to the skilled players who post HH like these and to the others like missjacki, arj, po, lb, naruto, for their feedback.

Speaking for myself, I always subscribe to these threads and read them again and again, absorbing what I can.

Just wanted to say thanks.

#Salute

 

[1947kings]

U had ur reasons to play weakly post flop...
i think u should have made a moderate bet post Turn...and should have watched his action...
also his post turn passive play should have given u a hint that he might be having a low flush..and u should have capitalised on that...