$.25 NLHE: Whats a good amount to bet on the River?

[WVUsellers3]

$.25 NL HE: Whats a good amount to bet on the River?

Alright, I'm playing in a 90person SnG on pokerstars right now. I had A4o come my way and it was the first decent hand I've had. There are a few LAG players at the table. Here's how the hand went:

PokerStars Game #38422097454: Tournament #233993372, $0.25+$0.00 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2010/01/19 17:31:35 ET
Table '233993372 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
HERO: Seat 1: youngsellers (1890 in chips)
VILLAIN: Seat 2: redprof (2605 in chips)
Seat 3: esefrodo (1930 in chips)
Seat 4: Hicksor51 (1970 in chips)
Seat 5: StilH2O Pony (2700 in chips)
Seat 6: 750y1 (1180 in chips)
Seat 7: lalguerine (3500 in chips)
Seat 8: mrmartins466 (1715 in chips)
Seat 9: mafialdatxo (3010 in chips)
esefrodo: posts small blind 15
Hicksor51: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to youngsellers [Ad 4h]
StilH2O Pony: folds
750y1: calls 30
lalguerine: folds
mrmartins466: folds
mafialdatxo: calls 30
youngsellers: calls 30
redprof: raises 210 to 240
esefrodo: folds
Hicksor51: folds
750y1: calls 210
mafialdatxo: calls 210
youngsellers: calls 210
*** FLOP *** [6d Ac Jd]
750y1: checks
mafialdatxo: checks
youngsellers: bets 240
redprof: calls 240
750y1: folds
mafialdatxo: folds
*** TURN *** [6d Ac Jd] A♠
youngsellers: bets 230 *Meant to bet 320, not 230...fingers didn't cooperate lol*
redprof: calls 230
*** RIVER *** [6d Ac Jd As] 4♦
youngsellers: checks
redprof: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
youngsellers: shows [Ad 4h] (a full house, Aces full of Fours)
redprof: mucks hand
youngsellers collected 1945 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1945 | Rake 0
Board [6d Ac Jd As 4d]
Seat 1: youngsellers showed [Ad 4h] and won (1945) with a full house, Aces full of Fours
Seat 2: redprof (button) mucked [Kh Kc]
Seat 3: esefrodo (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Hicksor51 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: StilH2O Pony folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: 750y1 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: lalguerine folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: mrmartins466 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: mafialdatxo folded on the Flop









I know I should have bet the river, but wasn't sure how much, so Ichecked thinking the guy behind me would have bet because he's been playing loose in the tourney up to this point...would a half-size pot been a good bet on the river?

 

[wislim]

First of all never call a big raise oop with A4o especially for over 10% of your stack. Even when an ace hits what are we beating besides A2,A3. Second mistake is leading out on flop with 3 left to act behind you. There are so many hands that have you beat to name them all. On the turn we get lucky and hit an ace with 1440 in the pot. Were still beat by 66,JJ,A7-AK, with a fd out there. A bigger A a little less likely now since we have one in our hand but still possible. With that much in the pot and 1410 left in our stack we must shove the rest of our chips in and make him pay if he is drawing to a fd. Any other questions send me a pm

 

[Weregoat]

Problems with this hand -
1 - Didn't bet enough on the flop. The pot is ~1000 chips (without me doing maths) - and you bet 240 - nobody is folding here if they are remotely interested in this pot - you're not shaking 3rd pair here, they're getting odds - direct and implied - to call you looking for a 2nd pair. You only have Tp, with a very weak kicker. Your bet is to find out where you're at in the hand - if you don't bet enough to find out, you are just letting other hands draw without finding out anything. I'd bet about 3/4s the pot here in a multi-way pot.

2 - You didn't bet enough on the turn. Yes - I get it, you have trip Aces. You're not worried about having second best hand - after all you're only trailing to a full house (flopped set) and a better ace. However there's still a daimond draw and broadway draws you're not charging enough - if a T comes on the river, you bet again and somebody shoves with broadway, you're in trouble. And why should you bet hard here? If they didn't think you had it on the flop, they're sure as hell not going to think you had it on the turn. I'd bet about half the pot here - up to about three quarters.

3. The river - A diamond draw just got there. However you are only trailing to AJ and A6 - your boat is likely best seeing as how villain has called you over and over again - he is only going to bet here if he has KdXd, so you need to bet - in case he has a hand like high PP he thought was best (like he did) - Against an opponent that has called action on the turn and river, I'd bet a little more than half the pot to the pot size, if I thought he was going to call me. Pay attention to his stack size, you don't want to make him make a decision for all his chips (+fold equity), because you are trying to get maximum value you for hand - as you believe you have the nuts. For instance, he should have been around 1800 on your river. Bet 900, as played - as he's not likely to call a bet of 1500 - leaving only 300 chips behind.

When betting for value on the river - you can either bet a lot (make it look like a bluff - a tilting opponent may be more inclined to call - or make it look weak -

For instance had you bet 200 here, there's no way he could have folded unless he pinned you for the A. But then why was he calling on the flop and turn (other than his excellent implied odds)?

Keep in mind, most likely had you bet 2/3's the pot on the flop (600-700) - your villain would not have pegged you for the A - (why would he bet with the A?) and thought his KK was good.

Then another 2/3's the pot when you tripped up, (1600-1800), he's be likely to go all in if he didn't believe you. If he did believe you, that's fine. A hand like Tp No Kicker I'd want to take the pot down on the flop.

/lengthy reply

 

[Weregoat]

Also what Wislim said.

 

[WVUsellers3]

I usually don't play A4o, but these guys were playing pretty loose, and it was the first or second (somewhat decent) hand I had, and kind of wanted to play it. I know all the reasons not to play the hand, though. (I did see the flush draw, but had figured the guy didn't have two diamonds in his hand, maybe in his ears, though.)

But from the rest of the stuff I'm seeing, I should have been more aggressive on the flop and turn to the point where I wouldn't have needed to bet on the river (via by already being AI or by forcing the guy to fold).

I appreciate the feedback, guys. Once I play some more (school, work, and, well, "a little" alcoholic consumption can be a bit overbearing sometimes) and get some more hands, I'll post more. Keep the (constructive) criticism coming.

 

[cjatud2012]

Alright, I'm playing in a 90person SnG on Pokerstars right now. I had A4o come my way and it was the first decent hand I've had. There are a few LAG players at the table. Here's how the hand went:

...

I know I should have bet the river, but wasn't sure how much, so Ichecked thinking the guy behind me would have bet because he's been playing loose in the tourney up to this point...would a half-size pot been a good bet on the river?

This is better:

poker stars $0.25+$0.00 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 488999
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (CO): t1890 M = 42
BTN: t2605 M = 57.89
SB: t1930 M = 42.89
BB: t1970 M = 43.78
UTG: t2700 M = 60
UTG+1: t1180 M = 26.22
UTG+2: t3500 M = 77.78
MP1: t1715 M = 38.11
MP2: t3010 M = 66.89

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is CO with A :diamond: 4 :heart:
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, 2 folds, MP2 calls t30, Hero calls t30, BTN raises to t240, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t210, MP2 calls t210, Hero calls t210

Flop: (t1005) 6 :diamond: A :club: J :diamond: (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t240, BTN calls t240, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds

Turn: (t1485) A :spade: (2 players)
Hero bets t230, BTN calls t230

River: (t1945) 4 :diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Final Pot: t1945
Hero shows A :diamond: 4 :heart: (a full house, Aces full of Fours)
BTN mucks K :heart: K :club:
Hero wins t1945

A lot of the important things have already been said. First, I'm folding this in both spots pre-flop. A4o is almost never a decent hand, especially in a multi-way pot OOP. On the flop, I'm c/f-ing to the original raiser, but if we were going to bet, put out a bet larger than 1/4 of the pot, so that you have a chance of 1) pricing out gutshots and other junk, and 2) getting all-in by the river.

As played, we should probably bet the turn, looking to get stacks in. Now we have a big hand, especially on the river-- obviously, we could be out-kicked, but he would have to have the case ace, and a lot of aces that beat us raise us on the flop-- so we want a big pot. Checking twice on the turn and river is a bad way to build a big pot.

Also, you probably aren't doing this on purpose, but a loose player isn't the same as an aggressive player. If a player is loose-passive, he won't bet if you check to him. So try not to get them confused.

Again, a lot of this is just repeating the above posts, but I hope it all helps.

 

[brank]

A4o is almost never a decent hand, especially in a multi-way pot OOP.

even against loose players.


errr, how do you double quote????

 

[cjatud2012]

errr, how do you double quote????

The button next to the regular quote button allows you to double quote. Nifty, isn't it?

 

[brank]

/\/\ ahh there it is. im retarded.

 

[ljove]

Bad call preflop.
You should go all in on the river

 

[cjatud2012]

As played, we should probably bet more on the turn, looking to get stacks in.

FMP.

 

[dg1267]

Pre-flop= fold

As played= shove the river

Why check that river? You give him a free out! I bet at least 75% of the pot here, but normally just shove because if they are willing to call 75% they will call a shove. This is a micro game. Micro's don't fold KK no matter what! Shove> He calls> You win> he waits for next KK to lose with.

 

[Pokerstudent]

Just a quick question.

You said that this was "it was the first decent hand I've had".....

In how long? Looking at the post, you are only in the second level of a non-turbo tournament. Have you really waited long enough for a good hand? Or did you just get tired of waiting and decide to play the first A you saw? I think we've all done it at times. That's why I feel that I recognize it.

I mean even burnt toast could taste like Mom's homemade bread when you haven't eaten in days....

If you reach Level 3 without playing a hand, then maybe you start searching....

 

[WiZZiM]

The button next to the regular quote button allows you to double quote. Nifty, isn't it?

/\/\ ahh there it is. im retarded.

hehe, ive been wondering how to do that also... no more triple posts for me. thanks..


and even against loose players a4 off oop is never a hand you want to play postflop with.. you can never be happy unless you turn trips and river a full house..

the blinds are at 15/30 you need not get involved yet.. fold preflop, its a mistake that worked this time.. i wouldnt try it again, unless you hate money..

 

[ImolAyrton]

I had A4o come my way and it was the first decent hand I've had.



Decent hand?? Its a crap a hand, anyway I would bet 2/3 pot at the river