$.25 NLHE MTT: How does SPR work? Is it a factor in this hand?

[tzuriel]

I know I don't have pot odds to call here but is it ever okay to call with a gut shot in this position with a low SPR on the flop? I have the shove stack well covered. I don't really understand when and how to apply SPR. We had just been moved to a new table so there were only 3 of us getting cards.

NL Holdem $0.25+$0.02 (100.00BB)
HERO ($17951)
BTN ($20016)
SB ($1911)

Dealt to Hero: J♣ T♣

BTN Raises To $212, SB Calls $200, HERO Calls $100

Hero SPR on Flop: [2.67 effective]
Flop ($636): K♣ 9♠ 3♥
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $318 (Rem. Stack: $19486), SB Raises To $1699 (allin), HERO Folds, BTN Calls $1381 (Rem. Stack: $18105)

 

[fundiver199]

SPR is a way to get an idea, how difficult it will be to get stacks inside, and how committed you should feel with a strong hand like top pair reasonable kicker. In this instance it was 2,5, which mean, that if you had KJ or KT rather than JT, then you are not going anywhere even facing this bet and jam in front of you. Part of the reason for that is, there are no more betting rounds to come against SB, so he can not push you off your equity later. With a drawing hand this is a pure math decision, and you are nowhere near getting the right odds to call with just 4 outs, so folding was clearly the right decisions.

 

[tzuriel]

SPR is a way to get an idea, how difficult it will be to get stacks inside, and how committed you should feel with a strong hand like top pair reasonable kicker. In this instance it was 2,5, which mean, that if you had KJ or KT rather than JT, then you are not going anywhere even facing this bet and jam in front of you. Part of the reason for that is, there are no more betting rounds to come against SB, so he can not push you off your equity later. With a drawing hand this is a pure math decision, and you are nowhere near getting the right odds to call with just 4 outs, so folding was clearly the right decisions.

Gotcha. Thank you.

 

[Coinuss]

Hero (BB) has ~ 179bb, BTN ~ 200bb opens 2.12bb, SB ~ 19bb. Pot 1.5 bb (BB + SB) + 2.12bb = 3.62bb before SB action. SPR for him is 18.5 / 3.62 = 5.11 (SPR>>1), if he calls and hero calls, the pot will be 6.36. And the SB's SPR is 16.88 / 6.36 = 2.65 SPR> 1, but if he 3-bets 2.5x (5.3bb) preflop and then all call, the pot is 15.9. And SPR for SB (19-5.3) / (5.3 * 3) = 13.7 / 15.9 = 0.86 SPR <1. When SPR <1, you should push any two cards to increase your fold equity against when SPR> 2. He hurried if he had K and GG with his semi-bluff.
SPR for the hero does not matter, except that you count SPR SB in order to understand his thoughts.

 

[Sidetracked]

SPR is a very different concept from pot odds.

With a gut shot, you will be needing 11:1 with one card to come, and about 5.5:1 with 2 cards to come. You're not getting that, so a fold is in order.

 

[300HPGOD]

Your question of is SPR a factor in this hand should always be yes any hand you play if you are playing on the top of your game. It should have some, if not a lot, of influence on how you value your holding post flop. If you are playing against decent opponents it should have an influence on how they play the hand as well. Quick example would be I will play and value top pair top kicker differently when there is an SPR of 9 on the flop vs if the SPR is 2. There are other factors as well like villain tendencies but SPR should be a driver in your decisions post flop on whether you are willing to go with it or factor in some cautiousness since SPR is tied to your or the effective stack size and stack size should be in consideration every decision you make.

 

[eetenor]

I know I don't have pot odds to call here but is it ever okay to call with a gut shot in this position with a low SPR on the flop? I have the shove stack well covered. I don't really understand when and how to apply SPR. We had just been moved to a new table so there were only 3 of us getting cards.

NL Holdem $0.25+$0.02 (100.00BB)
HERO ($17951)
BTN ($20016)
SB ($1911)

Dealt to Hero: J♣ T♣

BTN Raises To $212, SB Calls $200, HERO Calls $100

Hero SPR on Flop: [2.67 effective]
Flop ($636): K♣ 9♠ 3♥
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $318 (Rem. Stack: $19486), SB Raises To $1699 (allin), HERO Folds, BTN Calls $1381 (Rem. Stack: $18105)

Thank you for posting.

SPR is helpful in all situations we use it to guide our bet sizing decisions.

So when we play NL we are trying to get stacks in and double up -so our target stack is the biggest stack not the smallest stack.

So using SPR preflop we would make larger raises as we want to be able to stack the other big stack and we are not concerned with the small stack when the big stack is live. Both you and the big stack have large SPR preflop as the pot should be 150 BB and SB you would have SPR of 119
We normally use BB's here instead of SPR preflop so you have 179BB

On the flop the effective SPR is not 2.67 as the other big stack is live.

EFF SPR is our stack SPR 28.23 prior to any betting.

How would we use that number?

If we flopped the best hand we would need to think about our bet sizes on each street to get a 28 SPR stack all-in by the river versus the other large stack. As we believe we have the best hand the small stack does not factor into our use of SPR unless the big stack folds.
If the big stack folds our effective SPR becomes the smaller stacks remaining chips if they call on the flop.

As the small stack has only SPR 2.67 we should expect them to play for their stack if they are going to continue- this is how we use that SPR. It is an indicator of future actions by the SB we know at 2.67 SPR the most likely action by the SB is a check raise if they continue.

So if we say flopped a straight we are still targeting the other big stack-so we would check call trap the big stack if the SB pushes but if SB folds to UTG lead we want to build the pot -so instead it would be a check raise to build the pot and get the SPR lower.

In this particular hand SPR does not play a factor in our action post flop as relative hand strength becomes the factor with which we make our decision to fold.

Hope this Helps

 

[tzuriel]

Thank you for the thorough explanation!