$25 NLHE MTT: AK preflop 30bbs, 3 bet or shove?

[No Brainer]

Full Tilt, 50/100 blinds, 10 ante No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): 2,928 (29.3 bb)
BB: 5,892 (58.9 bb)
UTG+2: 8,181 (81.8 bb)
MP1: 4,143 (41.4 bb)
MP2: 5,790 (57.9 bb)
MP3: 8,056 (80.6 bb) 30/15 over 60 hands
CO: 3,398 (34 bb)
BTN: 4,495 (45 bb) 51/3 over 37 hands

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

A

3 folds, MP3 raises to 350, CO folds, BTN calls 350, Hero raises...

Do you shove here or just make a 3 bet. If so how do you size your 3 bet and whats the plan on the flop when we miss vs 1 or 2 callers? My image at the table is fairly laggy, maybe something like a 35/25 with 8% 3 bet.

 

[trent32la]

Shove.

If you make a standard 3bet here from OOP, you're going to have to go 350 x 3 (initial raise x3) + 350 (one caller), or 1,400, which is investing half your stack into the pot. In a situation where you're commiting this much of your stack with a 3bet, it's best to just shove. You also avoid having to play a pot OOP postflop by jamming here.

 

[horizon12]

Yes, easy shove, no call because you will play OOP in multiway pot, no 3bet because after your 3bet pot will be already big and in postflop you need already shove on any board.

 

[PBG789]

Agree with Trent and Horizon that this has to be a shove. 3-bet would have to be a minimum of 1200 which pretty much pot commits you to a shove on any flop. AKo is ahead of most of these 2 villains range which makes this a perfect spot for a shove-squeeze.

 

[Ambur]

Shove pre (possible). imo

Or you can go fancy with ~29bb, just for mixing (note that if you commit more then 1/3 stack, you have to play it off). imo

 

[aolguin3]

Shove would be the most reasonable thing to do since you would risk more players to call with a 3 bet.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I agree with those who say to shove. your stack size is perfect for this, and the fact that your image is LAGGY makes it an even better shove as you might get looked up by a hand like AJ/AQ.

I think that you need to have like 50+bb before making a regular 3bet is better than shoving in this spot. in which case, if you had like 5,000 I would 3bet to 1,200 (24% of my stack). If you have fewer chips, then your 3bet almost pot commits you....and a Cbet DOES pot commit you.....which is why with a strong hand like AK you want to exert maximum fold equity and get to see all 5 cards the times you get called. The fact that you are also OOP makes shoving the ideal move here, as it neutralizes position.

 

[xxMorpheusxx]

I think the general rule is shove if you have less than 5 times the pot in your stack.

 

[No Brainer]

I think the general rule is shove if you have less than 5 times the pot in your stack.

General rule? Can you explain why?

 

[Wickedestjr]

Shove.

If you make a standard 3bet here from OOP, you're going to have to go 350 x 3 (initial raise x3) + 350 (one caller), or 1,400, which is investing half your stack into the pot. In a situation where you're commiting this much of your stack with a 3bet, it's best to just shove. You also avoid having to play a pot OOP postflop by jamming here.

Why does the initial raiser's x3 raise force us to raise x3?


You're definitely not just raising. Shoving definitely works well here - especially because you're in last place.

But if there were significantly shorter stacks in play, then I think there's a case for calling too. You're out of position, yes, but you're getting great odds to call and AK isn't a tough hand to play with. If you do manage to get an Ace or King on the flop then you're more likely to get action because there's two opponents, your hand is very likely in the lead, and your strong hand is well disguised. This option also avoids a coin flip for your tournament life.

 

[xxMorpheusxx]

General rule? Can you explain why?

It's just the way the math works out. HotJenny from Drag the Bar went over it in one of her SnG videos.

To be honest I don't hate a 3 bet here. We are for sure commited though, if villians are likely to make bad calls to see a flop. We could make it like 1344 and jam all flops.

Just depends on how you think villian will perceive your actions.

 

[AviCKter]

Shove. IMO

3-bet is not really an option here, it would become a lot messy for a few reasons:
1. You're OOP.
2. Your image is laggy. Less often people will give you credit for a real hand and people will call you down and if you miss the flop, which happens a lot often than not, you're going to be in a very tricky spot.
3. Your 3-bet accomplishes nothing really. You might not be able to narrow the field and get it heads-up which I think you would ideally want with a hand like AK.

 

[xxMorpheusxx]

I don't think it creates any added decisions or trickyness if we decide to shove any flop. It's just like a stop and go. I'm just thinking by that raise pre maybe we get looked up by the more weaker parts of their range. Because we look LAG and they won't believe us.

 

[hffjd2000]

I have two options here- either fold or shove.

Ill go for the latter.

 

[rock0001]

i think i would just shove all in on this situation, having ak on a 6 max table is very strong and in most cases villains can fold a small or even a medium pair and you will avoid a coinflip scenario. calling isnt a good choice considering ak is a much stronger preflop hand than postflop so you have to be very aggresive on preflop. with less than 30 bb you can make a 10bb 3 bet however you will be pot commited and if you dont hit a good flop you will lose a third of your stack so i think shoving is the right option here.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Couple of mistakes reading through the comments thus far.

First, saying you'll likely get action if it's 3 ways to the flop is a flaw in general, people play tighter in multiway pots than heads-up pots.
Second, people saying fold is an option, it's not. You have 30bb and AK.

In terms of what's going to higher EV, I think it's going to be essentially the same, whether you make it around 1100 and jam any flop or just jam here, so I really wouldn't worry too much about what you do. If the opener is a fish, I'm happier going to 1100 and calling off or jamming any flop to let them make a bigger mistake. BTN also has very fishy stats so I think you'll probably make slightly more in the long run to just 3b, but it's really close.