$.25 NLHE: AA on a vanilla board to a re-raiser

[Tublecain]

$.25 NL HE: AA on a vanilla board to a re-raiser

I'm at the final table of one of pokerstars' 90 man SnGs. I hold AA in UTG and make a 2xBB PreFlop raise, and get 4 callers. The flop comes and the BB makes a raise, which I of course Re-Raise thinking he might have hit his AJ or KJ. Then the MP also re-raises (who I put on something like QT or KT since he's been re-stealing raised pots a lot. What's your move here, do you get out, re-shove AI, or flat call? Thanks in advance!

[b]Hand Information[/b]
PokerStars - Get $50 Free No Limit, 750 BB (9 handed).
Hand History converter courtesy of [url=http://www.pokerhandreplays.com]pokerhandreplays.com[/url]

[b]Table Information[/b]
Seat: 1 Player 1 ($10899)
Seat: 2 Player 2 ($11081) Dealer
Seat: 3 Player 3 ($35337) Small Blind
Seat: 4 Player 4 ($19391) Big Blind
Seat: 5 [color=Red]Hero[/color] ($18686)
Seat: 6 Player 6 ($10155)
Seat: 7 Player 7 ($27301)
Seat: 8 Player 8 ($15318)
Seat: 9 Player 9 ($31832)
Seat 1Player 1Seat 2Player 2Seat 3Player 3Seat 4Player 4Seat 5[color=Red]Hero[/color]Seat 6Player 6Seat 7Player 7Seat 8Player 8Seat 9Player 9Dealt to [color=Red]Hero[/color]
[img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/AH.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/AD.png[/img] 

[b]Preflop[/b] (Pot:1935)
[i]RAISE[/i] [color=Red]Hero[/color]$1500
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 6 
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 7 
[i]CALL[/i] Player 8 $1500
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 9 
[i]CALL[/i] Player 1 $1500
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 2 
[i]CALL[/i] Player 3 $1125
[i]CALL[/i] Player 4 $750

[b]Flop[/b](Pot: $8400)
[img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/9S.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/2H.png[/img] [img]http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/images/poker_image/JS.png[/img] 

[i]CHECK[/i] Player 3 
[i]BET[/i] Player 4 $2250
[i]RAISE[/i] [color=Red]Hero[/color]$6000
[i]ALL-IN[/i] Player 8 
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 1 
[i]FOLD[/i] Player 3 
[i]CALL[/i] Player 4 $11478
[i]???[/i] [color=Red]Hero[/color]

 

[Jillychemung]

If you are confident that Player 4 is just on a steal with a draw then shove, otherwise fold and take the lesson that you don't want your UTG preflop bet be so small as to actually encourage multiple callers.

 

[hunterT1000]

I think uve gotta let that go. ur pf raise was so small that its hard to put anyone on a range, but even if you are still ahead ur unlikely a big favourite. Alot of hands have you drawing thin, a few hands have you destroyed, and loads of hands have you dodging the deck.
You can fold here and still have a playable stack

 

[davidshoval]

I would play all-in because if he is a staeler than you are the leader but if you are not sure that he is bloffing this time than fold. I wouldn't call because I think that after the turn he would play all-in anyway so you have to decide now all in or fold.

Sorry about my English hope you understand.

 

[Numbuh 0ne]

First issue here was preflop raise, you gotta make that pot yours and q10 should not be limping in, unless there a real donk. If you are do get to that flop and make that raise i might have to fold there especially since your original raiser called. Bottom line is play preflop more aggressive.

 

[rsr552]

I agree that the preflop raise was the main blunder in your play. Your raise was too small to get moderate hands out of the hand. If you woul dhave raised more preflop...only more premium hands would have called and calling an all in on the flop would be easier since you would thin out the field more.

 

[Tublecain]

Many thanks for the replies. Indeed I pushed AI and got called by a 99 who hit his trips. My guess is that he would have called my raise no matter how big, and I just ran into some bad luck. However, my understanding about PF raises is that the standard size is around 3 times the Big Blind from Late and Mid position, whereas from Early position and UTG your raise should be smaller since you will be out of position the rest of the hand and want to keep the pot smaller, in addition to the fact that a raise from EP signals a very strong hand anyway, and you want to make sure that not everyone folds on you. I have raised with only 2xBB from EP and UTG several times, and often (especially this late in the tournament) everyone folds it all the way back around to me and I only get the blinds. Could anyone explain how much I should be raising form Early position and UTG? Is it 4xBB, the standard 3xBB? Many thanks!

Best, T.

 

[hunterT1000]

The problem with your raise size is as soon as one player calls everyone behind is being offered a cheap flop with great pot odds. Aces aren't the easiest hand to play early the key is to learn from these hands (I myself dumped in the 250k last night with aces utg playing them completely wrong)

 

[Tublecain]

That's what I used to think before reading a lot of the posts and columns on this, and many other forums. The tournament master himself, Chris Ferguson, says that even with monster hands (precisely because they are hard to play in EP), you want to make sure your PF raise is small so that the pot size doesn't get out of control once the flop comes.

But on the other hand, I agree that if you open with only 2xBB, then once one guy calls the rest have tons of odds to call. On the other hand, I feel like if you make it any bigger you'll scare the table off. Hell, I've had the entire table fold it back to me with just a 2xBB raise on several occasions. What's a 3xBB raise going to do?

I suppose I'm just confused a bit. What size should I shoot for, and I'm sure it depends on many factors, such as what stage of the tourney it is, my stack size, the stack size of my opponents, etc. Any help is appreciated. Thanks a lot!

Best, T.

 

[Numbuh 0ne]

In my experience its better to win small then lose big, so if you are gonna go far a smaller preflop raise you need to tell yourself that you will let go of that hand if faced with stiff opposition like that. Thats why i like to go ahead and make a 4x raise depending on the blinds, scares away those mediocre hands that might hit, you might only take the blinds and antes but its not like that is a bad thing. Also playing at low limits on some sites you need to raise at least 3x for there to be any kind of folding going on, min raising never really seems like a good idea unless maybe on the bubble if used correctly.

 

[Jillychemung]

IMHO, small ball poker is better suited for deep stack higher buyin tournaments ($100+).

For freerolls and lower buyins, I believe it is better to play, big bets for big hands, so, preflop, if you are going to come into a pot bet 3.5xBB-4xBB + 1BB/limper and then adjust if needed. Ideally you only want one equal stacked caller, makes post-flop play much easier.