$2 SnG

elfmanvt07

elfmanvt07

Guest
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Total posts
43
Stacks: - elfmanvt07 with 1810 - hubbhse with 855 - n8ght with 8495 - mpb2400 with 2720 - IF_6_WUZ_9 with 2270

index.pl


index.pl

Blinds:
Site: full tilt poker
* - Dealt to elfmanvt07:
th.gif
td.gif

* - Sklansky group 2
Preflop:
* - elfmanvt07 raises to 160
**- 1 players fold.
n8ght calls [160]
* - mpb2400 calls [120]
* - if_6_wuz_9 calls [80]
* - Total folds this street: 1
* - Potsize: 640
Flop:
qd.gif
7d.gif
tc.gif

* - mpb2400 bets [80]
* - if_6_wuz_9 calls [80]
* - elfmanvt07 calls [80] n8ght calls [80]
* - Potsize: 960
Turn:
6h.gif

* - mpb2400 bets [80]
**- 1 players fold.
* - elfmanvt07 raises to 320 n8ght calls [320]
* - mpb2400 calls [240]
* - Total folds this street: 1
* - Potsize: 1920
River:
kd.gif

* - mpb2400 checks
* - elfmanvt07 bets [1,250, and is all in] n8ght calls [1,250]
* - 1 players folded.
* - Total folds this street: 1
Results:
* - elfmanvt07 shows :
th.gif
td.gif

* - elfmanvt07 wins the pot (4,420) with three of a kind, Tens

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum



I won, but how could I have played this better? Is it better to go ahead and bet more to try to get out the flush draws?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Raise the flop. There's some money trapped in the pot, and people will call your raise with all manner of hands. You want to get max value out of these draws, and if 4 players call a 80 chip bet, you're offering them ~11:1 on their call! Surely you can get some more chips out of a flush draw!

Also, don't go shoving your chips in once every draw completes. Its like your aggression & what draws complete are related. When the [89] straight completes, you raise their bet. When the flush & [J9] & [AJ] straight completes, you go all in...

Oh, and raise more preflop. A min raise isn't going to get this down to 1 opponent, where you can c-bet it without having an overpair or a set. Preflop, what's your plan for the hand if you don't hit a set? Just simply fold away 9% of your chips?
 
wsorbust

wsorbust

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Total posts
2,425
Also, don't go shoving your chips in once every draw completes.
This will prove to be deadly more often then not. There's a possible straight and flush on board, you should not be shoving all-in here with trips unless it's maybe the short stack imo.

...If you do like to shove, possibly making the straights to fold, I guess?, hoping no one actually has the straight and will call, or the flush who will definitely call, then surely don't show the table for reasons stated above. They'll think you're a weak player unless you want that kind of image late in a sng being 2xany other stack. Or of course you've proved to everyone early on that you're decent, not that it really matters, they're no geniuses at a $2 sitngo, and everyone is taking their chances anyway, so it probably equals little harm either way.
 
Last edited:
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
...If you do like to shove, possibly making the straights to fold, I guess?
I don't think anyone at a 2$ SnG is folding a straight... That n8ght villain called him with worse than trips! Shoving this river is rarely profitable.
 
Katie Kards

Katie Kards

Guest
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Total posts
82
I also believe that you should have bet more on the flop, and not bet so much once completing cards fell.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,583
Awards
1
Don't think I like anything much about this one, despite the result. But here goes.

The bit I really don't like is the UTG min-raise - that just invited all sorts of trouble.

On the flop, I think I raise this. The pot's been artificially inflated by all the min-betting and calling pre-flop, so you're still likely to get your action. You've flopped a strong hand, but against a board with that many potential draws I'd like to narrow the field a little and charge my opponents a premium if they're drawing.

Structure info would be intersting, BTW - STT or MTT, turbo or not?
 
elfmanvt07

elfmanvt07

Guest
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Total posts
43
I appreciate your help.

This was a 2 table non-turbo SnG. Until this point, I had played only premium hands. I know my final play was terrible, but can't something be said for checking on the flop? My question is this: With the board on the flop and the strength of my hand, is it always a mistake to try to slow play?
 
Gobbs

Gobbs

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Total posts
51
Stacks: - elfmanvt07 with 1810 - hubbhse with 855 - n8ght with 8495 - mpb2400 with 2720 - IF_6_WUZ_9 with 2270

index.pl


index.pl

Blinds:
Site: Full Tilt Poker
* - Dealt to elfmanvt07:
th.gif
td.gif

* - Sklansky group 2
Preflop:
* - elfmanvt07 raises to 160
**- 1 players fold.
n8ght calls [160]
* - mpb2400 calls [120]
* - if_6_wuz_9 calls [80]
* - Total folds this street: 1
* - Potsize: 640
Flop:
qd.gif
7d.gif
tc.gif

* - mpb2400 bets [80]
* - if_6_wuz_9 calls [80]
* - elfmanvt07 calls [80] n8ght calls [80]
* - Potsize: 960
Turn:
6h.gif

* - mpb2400 bets [80]
**- 1 players fold.
* - elfmanvt07 raises to 320 n8ght calls [320]
* - mpb2400 calls [240]
* - Total folds this street: 1
* - Potsize: 1920
River:
kd.gif

* - mpb2400 checks
* - elfmanvt07 bets [1,250, and is all in] n8ght calls [1,250]
* - 1 players folded.
* - Total folds this street: 1
Results:
* - elfmanvt07 shows :
th.gif
td.gif

* - elfmanvt07 wins the pot (4,420) with three of a kind, Tens

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum



I won, but how could I have played this better? Is it better to go ahead and bet more to try to get out the flush draws?


I definitely don't like the smallish raise pre-flop. If I'm reading this right, you only bet 2x. You're going to get a lot of callers with that raise (quite possibly, anyway) and you really don't want a lot of callers with that hand.

After you hit your ten on the flop, I think a re-raise is in order. With the smallish bet in front of you, you still don't want to be playing this hand with four players in it. I think a reasonable re-raise is in order here. By calling, you're likely only buidling the pot another 160 (from the two callers behind you). A modest raise to 400 or so would probably still elicit a call from one player. This way, you've built the pot a little more and you're only facing one player.

The turn card was a great card for you. This gave you freedom to do more. I like your re-raise, but I think it's still too small considering the size of the pot.

This is a horrible river here...and I think you were very lucky that somebody wasn't chasing the flush considering the number of players you allowed to see the flop and turn. I don't think you could have gotten anymore out of it than you did, but I'd say you were more lucky on this hand.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
With the board on the flop and the strength of my hand, is it always a mistake to try to slow play?
That's a draw board. Any number of hands could have flopped flush draws, straight draws, or combinations of both. Its okay to slowplay on a dry board, or when suited cards are a very small portion of your villain's ranges. However, in this case, with such a small preflop raise, people certainly may be playing [8d9d] or [Jd9d], or some horrible draw that you don't want to see.

These drawing hands have big potential to turn your strong hand into the 2nd best hand. Which, in poker, is maximumly expensive. If one of those players was on a flush draw, you played this horribly. You gave them strong pot odds to draw to their flush, and then when the flush hit, you dumped all your chips in the middle as if to say "If you were smart enough to stay in with your draw, here's all my chips".

That card was quite possibly the worst river card for you, and I would seriously consider checking behind on the river.


Slowplay is fine for when draws aren't very possible. On this flop there are 2 hands with open-ended straight draws, and a flush draw is also possible. And worse, you are in the hand with 4 opponents! This is *NOT* the kind of hand to be slow playing. With all the opponents, and all the draws possible, someone will pay you if you start betting this in a standard, aggressive manner.

I'd like to see the hand played like this:

==============
Dealt to elfmanvt07:
th.gif
td.gif

* - Sklansky group 2
Preflop:
* - elfmanvt07 raises to 275
**- 1 players fold.
n8ght calls [275]
* - mpb2400 folds
* - if_6_wuz_9 folds
* - Total folds this street: 3
* - Potsize: 670
Flop:
qd.gif
7d.gif
tc.gif

* - elfmanvt07 bets [400]
* - n8ght calls [400]
* - Potsize: 1470
Turn:
6h.gif

* - elfmanvt07 bets [1135] and is all-in
* - n8ght calls [1135]
* - Potsize: 3740
===================

This way, you get your money in before the scary crap comes out, flush draws are less likely to call you and take your pot, and you won't be playing against 4 opponents.
 
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