$2 NLHE STT Turbo: $$2 NLHE STT Turbo: $$2 NLHE STT Turbo: Good or bad fold with AK?

[arabarran666]

$2 NLHE STT Turbo: $$2 NLHE STT Turbo: $$2 NLHE STT Turbo: Good or bad fold with AK?

It was double or nothing SNG (5 places paid), second hand in the tourney, no info about other players. Hand in the link below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSTNinIbUSM

 

[PCK]

Is a good fold ...you cant call

 

[Ambur]

As played: If we call shove on flop, it is negative expectation overall! So fold is correct many ways! Hero got his ~24% to improve (minus reverse x odds) and pot odds are ~27%.

But i do not like hero size of the opening! - I would rather call preflop, since i do not believe this 3bet size could narrow the field effectively that deep+multiway 3+ (it is more work like pot sweetener)! imo If decide to open jam preflop make it ~3x initial openers bet + 1x for each caller! - but i do not like it many ways!+ we do not have info+early stage+initial opener is utg (minbet?).

preflop: But i would prefer keep it small and probably just call OOP and look what happens..

 

[WiZZiM]

yep agree with ambur would prefer to just flat here preflop or another option is to just jam it in preflop and be done with it.

Since it's an UTG raise i prefer to just flat and continue if we hit TP or better. (keep in mind its multiway so go slow postflop almost always with TP)

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

yep agree with ambur would prefer to just flat here preflop or another option is to just jam it in preflop and be done with it.

Since it's an UTG raise i prefer to just flat and continue if we hit TP or better. (keep in mind its multiway so go slow postflop almost always with TP)

Exactly. flat or jam preflop....flatting is better due to readless vs EP range but jamming has some merit due to dead money pickup is somewhat likely here, or flipping with dead money is the 2nd most likely.

On the flop, check/fold is standard to any large flop bet. The fact that one player bet, a 2nd player jammed and a 3rd player called should make this the easiest fold of your day.

By the way, you should follow those players around as much as possible, they are all terrible! Every one of them should have folded preflop to your raise and everyone of them played their hands terribly on the flop too!

 

[Ambur]

Exactly. flat or jam preflop....flatting is better due to readless vs EP range but jamming has some merit due to dead money pickup is somewhat likely here, or flipping with dead money is the 2nd most likely.

Lets assume that we decided to jam, could you please explain this a little bit more?

My english is not so great, trying to figure out if i understand correctly!

Are you trying to say that if we jam preflop(i assume u mean 3bet not going AI preflop) is higher probability that we pick up dead money 3+ multiway OOP than flipping with the dead money?

 

[arabarran666]

Exactly. flat or jam preflop....flatting is better due to readless vs EP range but jamming has some merit due to dead money pickup is somewhat likely here, or flipping with dead money is the 2nd most likely.

On the flop, check/fold is standard to any large flop bet. The fact that one player bet, a 2nd player jammed and a 3rd player called should make this the easiest fold of your day.

By the way, you should follow those players around as much as possible, they are all terrible! Every one of them should have folded preflop to your raise and everyone of them played their hands terribly on the flop too!

Yep, i thought at least one will fold to my raise. To be honest i expected King and Aces, maybe Queens from them...

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Lets assume that we decided to jam, could you please explain this a little bit more?

My english is not so great, trying to figure out if i understand correctly!

Are you trying to say that if we jam preflop(i assume u mean 3bet not going AI preflop) is higher probability that we pick up dead money 3+ multiway OOP than flipping with the dead money?

jamming means to go all in preflop, not just simply 3betting for less than your whole stack.

jamming = shoving = pushing = ship it = going all in. These are all slang for putting your whole stack in the middle.

In a limit game, sometimes to jam means to cap each round...but if you're talking about a no limit game jamming means going all in.

So what I'm saying is that if you elect to jam (which I think is the 2nd best option) the upside is you don't have to play the hand OOP and most likely you have some fold equity and the times you get called it is most likely by 1 player so there will be some dead money. AK is often "flipping" so if you're getting better than 1:1 pot odds (due to the dead money) and you have 50% equity then you are in a profitable situation whether you win or lose the flip it is still a good play. But maybe not as good of a play as just flatting.

I think if this is a new player who is still developing their post flop skills and might get into some trouble post flop and OOP, then jamming could be better than flatting. I would probably flat this.

 

[Ambur]

I agree with that part - jamming means going to AI, but some source are saying that jam is used as "A pot where several players are raising" and jammed pot at same source means " A pot that has been raised the maximum number of times", thats why i am little bit confused about this terms "jam or jamming" or whatever! - Now i know that if you use this word jamming you mean going AI!

Thanks for your reply!

Again i discovere myself speculating mode+ a lot of assuming - so i decided to put it into spoiler!

Spoiler

If we decide to go AI preflop: we have to assume a lot, so i am not sure that we are going to flip in this situation if we are jamming the pot preflop! AK is just Ace high hand and this situation we are 3+ OOP! I really do not recommend anyone to go AI preflop, since initial villaine is EP (minbet early stage? or not, games are changing in time)+a lot of caller+no info+if we really have best hand we want to be sure that someone will call and going AI does not quarantee this+we are losing value if nobody will call (can happen given dynamics)! Can be possible that we take the pot down and all we get a little bit dead money, since this is early stage and blinds are not that high, i really think standard good sized 3bet will narrow the field+we do not lose value+we have pot control!

But if we can assume that we are against terribad opponents, then might jamming will be the best option if we decide to be agressive preflop!


But most of the time i will flat this preflop and look what happens, since there is a lot of assuming and we really do not know where we are at preflop and buying that info by going AI early position with AK (basically A high hand) is terribad move.

My second best move is to show willingness to go AI preflop and i believe i will gain it by making good sized 3bet! I am almost pot commited at that point and willing to jam it in if needed preflop. But main decision i would prefer to leave postflop! (since i believe i have edge of the field). Making that kind of play we are most likely inviting to terribad players to make a second mistake+we most likely could narrow the field+we probably do not lose any value+we leave ourselves tiny chance to get away from this hand!

And the third option is to go AI preflop - If i want to play it like coward. Doesnt matter what is the result that point! Like scared of postflop - i would call it postflop syndrom! So this is really not an option for me EP+3+ multiway+early stage+OOP etc. I am not going AI preflop basically never in this situation - only then i would consider this if i have solid info about my opponents (but i do not have it almost never early stage)