$2 NLHE Rebuy: QQ first raise....then what?

[I_B_Freaky]

$2 NL HE Rebuy: QQ first raise....then what?

Sunday $2.00 CC Re-Buy How should I have played this?

pokerstars Game #25742808852: Tournament #137165623, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/03/08 14:40:35 ET
Table '137165623 4' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: bigclout1 (10660 in chips)
Seat 3: Stubbie32 (8795 in chips)
Seat 4: Trent's Momm (8360 in chips)
Seat 5: mac is b@ck (9485 in chips)
Seat 6: I_B_Freaky (5750 in chips)
Seat 7: DREW0 (4775 in chips)
Seat 8: dakota-xx (8590 in chips)
Seat 9: 1bourbon1 (9150 in chips)
bigclout1: posts small blind 75
Stubbie32: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to I_B_Freaky [Qs Qh]
Trent's Momm: folds
mac is b@ck: folds
I_B_Freaky: raises 450 to 600
DREW0: raises 450 to 1050
dakota-xx: folds
1bourbon1: folds
bigclout1: calls 975
Stubbie32: folds
I_B_Freaky:

What should I do here? I will post the rest later......I do not know how to post like you guys do. Thanks!!

 

[Jillychemung]

Is this during the rebuy period or after it?

 

[nevadanick]

Looks like it is an hour and 10 minutes into today's CC Sunday Stars game, so must be right after first break.

Looking at a re-raise and a caller, I would call it to see the flop. Don't think a 3-bet is a good idea for those ladies considering the action so far.

 

[jroyfus]

I would call the re-raise to see the flop,

if flop is all low i would then let the reraiser make a

move if they do a continuation bet then re-raise it to see if they

back off or fold, if they call then I would check down or maybe call

a value bet on river if no overcards had hit the board by then.

 

[viking999]

I don't like shoving very much here. You can win so much more versus JJ and TT by flat calling and letting them continue betting, even though you give them a free shot at two outs. Also, I'd wager you're up against AK, and QQ plays much better against AK by waiting for a flop and then making a move.

I'd flat call. If an A or K comes on the flop, I'm shutting down without a Q. Otherwise, I'm looking to check/raise all-in. If it checks around, I'll shove any non-A or K turn.

 

[Melkor]

I disagree with a call here, I get this all-in. We cannot fold. There are quite a few reasons why actually:

1. Hand strength. Plain and simple, we have the third best hand in the deck and are at worst against only two other holdings 20% dog. Drew0's raise certainly suggests AA but not so we have to let go of the QQ here when we could use a double up.

2. Dead money. The call by bigclout has made the pot very attractive and worth taking down right now which I think is possible. It has also made getting it in against AK completely correct in terms of odds.

This is more crucial, however, when we look at our EV against the range that calls us. Lets say Drew0 would only reraise with AA, KK, AKs and AKo, the other QQ and JJ. I think this is a sensible range that does this and that would then have to call the shove. I will save writing the calculations but we win +$219 chips when we shove and are called despite being a 47% dog because of the call from bigclout. That means that we can weight the calling range towards AA and it is still a +EV shove.

3. Our stack size. We had 5750 at the start of the hand. 600 was our raise so it is 5150. The reraise means we have to put in another 450 so 4700. We are not committed of course but the pot size when we call is 3300. That is very awkward. Any bet commits us but any all-in is an overbet and doesn't give great value. Middling pairs like 99 with maybe a J on the flop can get away. It is just a really weird and difficult position.

As for letting TT or JJ give us more value, I am not buying someone who has JJ or TT is thinking they are good giving the action once we call. Crucially, while this may happen we are losing value from AK on an undercard flop, an AK that would call the shove preflop, so it would balance out and I think not in favour of us. It is also more probable an overcard lands on the board and bligclout acts first and they never bet into two people even on an undercard board.

I would either fold or go all-in here, and it is +EV to go all-in I would say, a call when we are OOP against Drew0 is so difficult.

All-in.

 

[Melkor]

I don't like shoving very much here. You can win so much more versus JJ and TT by flat calling and letting them continue betting, even though you give them a free shot at two outs. Also, I'd wager you're up against AK, and QQ plays much better against AK by waiting for a flop and then making a move.

I'd flat call. If an A or K comes on the flop, I'm shutting down without a Q. Otherwise, I'm looking to check/raise all-in. If it checks around, I'll shove any non-A or K turn.

Not meaning to double comment but that is totally wrong. Majority of the time AK attacks with a A or K on board when we are beat whereas all-in preflop we are a 56% fav. QQ relies on AK getting it in preflop.

 

[jrmonty]

gotta push , as Melkor said your losing value verus AK and possibly underpairs as i disagree with the fact you think an underpair is going to call an all-in on a flop with low cards and if they do call its probably because you will end up being against trips.

also the only hands beating us are AA KK which are unlikely however it is possibly but if the flop comes rags you will lose all your chips anyway because we will still be getting all in with and overpair so just push and hope they hold up.

 

[I_B_Freaky]

It was during the re-buy period. Lets pretend it was not because I had a nice stack and there was not a lot of time left.

 

[DREW0]

In my humble opinion I think you should allways fold in this situation.

 

[Jillychemung]

In my humble opinion I think you should allways fold in this situation.

lol

 

[Melkor]

It was during the re-buy period. Lets pretend it was not because I had a nice stack and there was not a lot of time left.

Yeah, I am bordering on insta-shove during the rebuy period.

In my humble opinion I think you should allways fold in this situation.

lol

 

[DREW0]

I don't remember this hand ..so what was the outcome??

 

[I_B_Freaky]

PokerStars Game #25742808852: Tournament #137165623, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/03/08 14:40:35 ET Table '137165623 4' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 2: bigclout1 (10660 in chips) Seat 3: Stubbie32 (8795 in chips) Seat 4: Trent's Momm (8360 in chips) Seat 5: mac is b@ck (9485 in chips) Seat 6: I_B_Freaky (5750 in chips) Seat 7: DREW0 (4775 in chips) Seat 8: dakota-xx (8590 in chips) Seat 9: 1bourbon1 (9150 in chips)
bigclout1: posts small blind 75
Stubbie32: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to I_B_Freaky [Qs Qh]
Trent's Momm: folds
mac is b@ck: folds
I_B_Freaky said, "i guess the bet made if obvious"
I_B_Freaky: raises 450 to 600
DREW0: raises 450 to 1050
bigclout1 said, "7 now"
dakota-xx: folds
1bourbon1: folds
bigclout1: calls 975
Stubbie32: folds
I_B_Freaky: calls 450
*** FLOP *** [Kc 4c Ac]
bigclout1: checks
I_B_Freaky: checks
DREW0: bets 3725 and is all-in
bigclout1: folds
I_B_Freaky: folds
Uncalled bet (3725) returned to DREW0
DREW0 collected 3300 from pot
I_B_Freaky said, "QQ lol"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3300 | Rake 0
Board [Kc 4c Ac]
Seat 2: bigclout1 (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 3: Stubbie32 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: Trent's Momm folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: mac is b@ck folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: I_B_Freaky folded on the Flop Seat 7: DREW0 collected (3300) Seat 8: dakota-xx folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: 1bourbon1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[I_B_Freaky]

Thanks for posting this.......well thought out. I actually felt beat preflop. I almost folded. I actually called hoping an ace or king would hit so I could fold. LOL I just FELT beat.

I disagree with a call here, I get this all-in. We cannot fold. There are quite a few reasons why actually:

1. Hand strength. Plain and simple, we have the third best hand in the deck and are at worst against only two other holdings 20% dog. Drew0's raise certainly suggests AA but not so we have to let go of the QQ here when we could use a double up.

2. Dead money. The call by bigclout has made the pot very attractive and worth taking down right now which I think is possible. It has also made getting it in against AK completely correct in terms of odds.

This is more crucial, however, when we look at our EV against the range that calls us. Lets say Drew0 would only reraise with AA, KK, AKs and AKo, the other QQ and JJ. I think this is a sensible range that does this and that would then have to call the shove. I will save writing the calculations but we win +$219 chips when we shove and are called despite being a 47% dog because of the call from bigclout. That means that we can weight the calling range towards AA and it is still a +EV shove.

3. Our stack size. We had 5750 at the start of the hand. 600 was our raise so it is 5150. The reraise means we have to put in another 450 so 4700. We are not committed of course but the pot size when we call is 3300. That is very awkward. Any bet commits us but any all-in is an overbet and doesn't give great value. Middling pairs like 99 with maybe a J on the flop can get away. It is just a really weird and difficult position.

As for letting TT or JJ give us more value, I am not buying someone who has JJ or TT is thinking they are good giving the action once we call. Crucially, while this may happen we are losing value from AK on an undercard flop, an AK that would call the shove preflop, so it would balance out and I think not in favour of us. It is also more probable an overcard lands on the board and bligclout acts first and they never bet into two people even on an undercard board.

I would either fold or go all-in here, and it is +EV to go all-in I would say, a call when we are OOP against Drew0 is so difficult.

All-in.

 

[I_B_Freaky]

I don't remember this hand ..so what was the outcome??

Request this hand 25742808852 from PS and post it please? Would be a great tool and you won't give up your play. Thanks in advance!!

 

[DREW0]

View attachment ~$anscript for game.doc

 

[DREW0]

I hope that works, as you can probably tell I am Pc illiterate. 40 yrs ago I could have written you a complete accountuing program in COBOL for an IBM 360 series 30 main frame, but i know very little about the intricasies of Windows based PC's.

 

[I_B_Freaky]

What did you have?

Thanks Drew,

If you have the hand.......cut and paste it into the text body. What did you have?

 

[DREW0]

I had A K off.

 

[chigal]

should AKo call the shove by QQ?

AK the bane of my poker life right now. Would you have called the shove by
QQ? Do pot odds say you should call?

 

[DREW0]

In a rebuy tourney such as this I would certainly have called, otherwise it would depend on stack size, how far into the tourney and position within the tourney i.e. if I were doing good and had invested a serious amount of time I would not risk my tournement life on AKo.

 

[robert_wrath]

The correct move here is to push reraise all in. Your pushing in with a top tier hand ( the best of it ). If you do get unlucky and lose, you do have the option to re buy. Bear in mind, entering in a re buy tournament, you should have enough to re buy up to 4 times and have the option to purchase the add on. Most players don't consider this as an option for strategic play.

 

[CrossCrucificio]

Raising your QQ and then you get a re-raise and another caller. Since this is a rebuy tournament for only $2. I'm not sure what your bankroll is like but most likely $2 is really nothing much to most people. I would push all-in here since you can rebuy. Other players may just have Ace high and thinking rebuy tournament, they just want to compile chips early.

 

[only_bridge]

I think you are making a misstake when you talk during the hand, its kind of a tell.