$2 NLHE: $2 MTT 6-Max, 2pair on flop - shove from an aggressive player with flush draw showing

[RyanDG]

$2 NL HE: $2 MTT 6-Max, 2pair on flop - shove from an aggressive player with flush draw showing

I'm just curious what the general consensus is for this hand... Based on the way the person was playing, he was essentially calling pretty much all of my pre-flop raises and would fold to any bet on the flop when he missed, but would bet out if checked to. This was pretty much the standard for the last several hands in the tournament.

When the flop came with the two pair, I thought I was in pretty good shape. I was a little worried about the flush draw, but I figured that at the very least he would bet out on the flop and I would check raise the player.

When he went all in at that point I assumed he was probably sitting with Ax more than likely both diamonds. There is also the chance that he is pushing with a pocket pair, but a set doesn't enter my mind at this point, because based on previous hands, unless it was 5s, he would've re-raised preflop with the Ks or Qs. I don't necessarily give him credit for the AQ of diamonds, but it was something that I considered. The question is, with the shove here, is it time to go ahead and make the stand against the player or should I let this one go and wait for another spot?

A few details about the tournament - at this point in time there was about 900 players left - top 300 or so get paid. I was about 4000 chips above the chip average. The rest of the table was starting to play push or shove mode with the chip leader at the table (the person who I ended up tangling with) - as most pots were growing to out of control amounts rather quickly preflop.

Is being a slight favorite (figuring about 60-40 if he has Ax of diamonds?) worth risking the tournament life on if based on the way he previously played you are nearly 100% confident that he has the flush draw with at least the ace in his hand?

Thanks for the help! I'm trying to improve and stop spewing money at the MTT tables.

Table '219011062 28' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: SB (7090 in chips)
Seat 2: BB (2100 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG (4425 in chips)
Seat 4: MP (1300 in chips)
Seat 5: Me (CO) (8905 in chips)
Seat 6: BTN (9360 in chips)
rocketsteph: posts small blind 75
Henport: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Me (CO) [Kh Qh]
UTG: folds
MP: folds
Me: raises 225 to 375
BTN: calls 375
SB: folds
BB: folds
*** FLOP *** [5d Kd Qs]
Me: checks
BTN: bets 8985 and is all-in

As a second question - was checking here the best play or should I have gone ahead and lead out? I was thinking of leading out betting, but was thinking of the best way to extract the most money would be a check at this point. I had played passively after the flop the last couple of hands and hadn't check raised since a semi-bluff early on - I was thinking this was an opportune time to do so, but looking reflectively on it - with a draw out there, was I setting myself up there? I was nearly 95% sure that with the check to him he was going to bet. I wasn't worried about necessarily giving him a free card.

 

[S93]

I snap call here.
He is acording to you a aggro fish and im not letting top 2 go against him.
I also think this kind of bet in general is more a scared bet then a monster(TP scared of FD or FD going for dumb FE), if we discount KK and QQ from his range because of the asumption that he 3bets them prf his range probably looks like this flushdraws,KTo-AKo,K2s-AKs,55 and maybe some spazes, his range might be alitle narrower but we still have it crushed so this is a snap call for me.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 83.080% 78.69% 04.39% 38174 2128.00 { KhQh }
Hand 1: 16.920% 12.53% 04.39% 6080 2128.00 { 55, AKs, AdQd, K2s+, JdTd, AKo, KTo+ }



Also thanks for including so much details, alot of poster could take you as a example as to how u should post in HA.
Just one think could u maybe convert your hands, i see u edited out the names but thats not the only reason converted>unconverted, converted hands make following the action easier to read and gives you pot sizes each street ect.
I like this converter http://www.stoxpoker.com/pokertools/handconverter but there are plenty of others.

 

[AceZWylD]

According to your read, he has been checking missed hands or betting to a check. He has also been betting hands that he has hit. Based on your read, I think you have given yourself the answer. This is a fist pump call.

He is not betting all in with a made set on an action board. He is gonna wait until you hit a piece and bet into him. Why go all in when opposition has represented no strength? You don't get paid off with your made hands like that. So, that doesn't make sense as a play. He is betting into the same board you are, so I am guessing he sees the same potential draws that you see. How do you prevent opponents from hitting draws? Take away pot odds, which is what this play looks like to me. Too bad his top pair is dominated here.

 

[Aaronftw]

I don't think I'm ever folding this spot here against this villain, I'm guessing at best he holds bottom set or something like Jd10d? Or a random Ax of diamonds trying to trap money with he's draw..

 

[baudib1]

you can't be serious...you induced a bad shove from an aggro-donk and have to think about it?

don't forget to fistpump.

 

[c9h13no3]

don't forget to fistpump.

At least twice.

 

[RyanDG]

you can't be serious...you induced a bad shove from an aggro-donk and have to think about it?

don't forget to fistpump.

I don't mean to sound too dense, but I'm still trying to learn what I'm doing in these larger multi-table tournaments. The issue that I'm having a concern about here is at what sort of point do you put more value on your tournament life than the hand on the table?

With the position I'm currently in, is that worth the tournament life? (Well above chip average and other table members starting to follow this guys aggro example and entering a push-a-thon due to his play). Or is thinking this way going to be putting myself in a situation where I'm being way too conservative for a standard MTT?



As a side not here, this is how the rest of the hand played out:

Me: checks
BTN: bets 8985 and is all-in
Me: calls 8530 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (455) returned to BTN
*** TURN *** [5d Kd Qs] 4♣
*** RIVER *** [5d Kd Qs 4c] 2♦
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Me: shows [Kh Qh] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
BTN: shows [Ad Jd] (flush, Ace high)
BTN collected 18035 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 18035 | Rake 0
Board [5d Kd Qs 4c 2d]

I did fist bump once the call was made. I really felt my read was good and was happy to see I was right when the cards were flipped. Afterwards, however, that check has me questioning my choice due to the implications it caused for my tournament life.

Would throwing out a bet against a super aggressive (and draw happy) player like this cool him down a bit? I presume that the first bet (if I were to know his hand) - no matter what it is - will likely be called from his position if I lead out. But would that have been a safer route knowing his style to take into consideration the tournament as a whole?

I figured the call was good once put into that position for the all-in, but I'm wondering if my initial play may have gotten me into more trouble than was necessary when if I used an initial lead out bet against this player I may have been able to control the pot a lot more (though would've lost him altogether if he didn't hit a piece of the flop based on his previous plays). Any thoughts on that and whether or not the risk of losing him to the post-flop bet valued greater than giving my opponent the opportunity to take the lead on a drawing board? Ultimately this is my 'big' question for this hand...

Also, thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll keep in mind what was said about the hand compiler for next time.

 

[baudib1]

Having seen results, he actually has the worst hand we'd want to see here (sets are unlikely and I don't think they ever play this way). However, you're still a favorite to win a huge pot.

Keep in mind that your tournament life is not worth much. Even if you fold on the flop (which is absurd) you're not going to make the money very often, and the vast majority of the time when you do, it won't be for much more than your buyin. So look for chances to get it in ahead of villain's range and be overjoyed to get it in with top 2.

 

[S93]

I understand what your saying but honestly your overthinking this.

Top 2 vs a aggro spew monkey with 60BB effective stacks is def not the place for pot control.
Dont really feel like doing the calculations right now but im 200% sure that geting it in here has the way highest ev.

Yeah it sucks u got sucked out on, it sucks he had close to top of his range(He basicly has best hand he can have besides 55 against us) but you maked the right play and thats what poker is about, keep doing that and you will profit in the long run...

 

[RyanDG]

I figured I may have been over thinking things... (not too worried about the suck out - it happens - just wanting to try to improve the play if possible to allow for more deep runs).

What about the check - I had my intentions in place, but is controlling a pot in a tournament with a drawing board more important than trying some elaborate play?

 

[S93]

If your read is correct that he bets every time checked too then check/raising(or check/calling like in this case) are the best plays imo.

 

[baudib1]

the important thing on this flop is to get it in before the draws hit, and you did. usually the best way is to bet but he seems capable of spazzing with worse stuff.

 

[rcrocketman]

Yes I'd call here.
I wouldn't check the flop to him (even though you mentioned he was betting out the most of the time when checked to) as I think it's a flop that could hit alot of his range (and with the two diamonds). Leading out would look like a typical cbet anyways.

 

[rcrocketman]

I don't mean to sound too dense, but I'm still trying to learn what I'm doing in these larger multi-table tournaments. The issue that I'm having a concern about here is at what sort of point do you put more value on your tournament life than the hand on the table?

With the position I'm currently in, is that worth the tournament life? (Well above chip average and other table members starting to follow this guys aggro example and entering a push-a-thon due to his play). Or is thinking this way going to be putting myself in a situation where I'm being way too conservative for a standard MTT?



As a side not here, this is how the rest of the hand played out:

Me: checks
BTN: bets 8985 and is all-in
Me: calls 8530 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (455) returned to BTN
*** TURN *** [5d Kd Qs] 4♣
*** RIVER *** [5d Kd Qs 4c] 2♦
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Me: shows [Kh Qh] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
BTN: shows [Ad Jd] (flush, Ace high)
BTN collected 18035 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 18035 | Rake 0
Board [5d Kd Qs 4c 2d]

I did fist bump once the call was made. I really felt my read was good and was happy to see I was right when the cards were flipped. Afterwards, however, that check has me questioning my choice due to the implications it caused for my tournament life.

Would throwing out a bet against a super aggressive (and draw happy) player like this cool him down a bit? I presume that the first bet (if I were to know his hand) - no matter what it is - will likely be called from his position if I lead out. But would that have been a safer route knowing his style to take into consideration the tournament as a whole?

I figured the call was good once put into that position for the all-in, but I'm wondering if my initial play may have gotten me into more trouble than was necessary when if I used an initial lead out bet against this player I may have been able to control the pot a lot more (though would've lost him altogether if he didn't hit a piece of the flop based on his previous plays). Any thoughts on that and whether or not the risk of losing him to the post-flop bet valued greater than giving my opponent the opportunity to take the lead on a drawing board? Ultimately this is my 'big' question for this hand...

Also, thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll keep in mind what was said about the hand compiler for next time.

Now seeing his holecards (I hadn't read thru the entire thread when I first posted on here) I think villain would've reraised you AI even if you had cbet the flop (he really doesn't sound like the type of player who's just flatting here with the monster draw).

I'd be happy with the way you played the hand though if I were you.

 

[SystEmsuX]

Still a favorite against the monster draw. Don't fold.