$2.25 NLHE STT: KQs light 3-bet, get shoved on by BB nit

[BigThingWithHolesInIt]

$2.25 NLHESTT: KQs light 3-bet, get shoved on by BB nit

full tilt poker $2 + $0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t40/t80 Blinds - 5 players - View hand 956711
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

SB: t2360 29.50 BBs
BB: t2775 34.69 BBs
UTG: t1365 17.06 BBs
CO: t1370 17.12 BBs
Hero (BTN): t5630 70.38 BBs

Pre Flop: (t120) Hero is BTN with Q :heart: K :heart:
1 fold, CO raises to t320, Hero raises to t1000, 1 fold, BB raises to t2775 all in, 1 fold, Hero ???

So I read about 3-betting light in the Golden Archives and went to apply it in my game today.

The CO was a typical player at these stakes, raising wide pre-flop but very passive post.
I had 3-bet him a few hands earlier with 88, he called, flop came K22 and he check/folded to my c-bet.

BB however was an absolute nit, somewhere early on he doubled up with QQ against a particularly spewy player, and he had only been in one hand since, a BvB where he took the pot on the flop.

So I was rather sure I'd be up against exactly AK, QQ, KK, or AA.

How do I decide this? It's 2.33:1 on the call, I'll have a bit less than 3k left if I lose... If this is a fold, what odds do I need to call?

 

[baudib1]

As usual on this forum, the question is: Do you have a real reason for 3-betting here or did you just do it cuz you read about 3-betting light and think it's cool?

I suppose if someone is going to flat a 3-bet OOP in a SnG and play fit or fold you can get away with it but in general you're going to put yourself in some awful spots postflop if you're 3-betting light less than all-in pre.

In general 3-betting light against someone who just raised 4xbb for 1/4 of his stack is a pretty awful idea, but people will make awful plays in these spots at low buyins.

Just fold to the first raise, but as played you obviously call it off and hope you can run down the nit's JJ+/AK.

 

[cjatud2012]

3-betting light doesn't apply the same to STT's as they do to cash games. If you're looking to re-steal (which is gonna be a re-raise all in rather than leaving any part of your stack behind), you need to first identify if the player is raising as a steal or for value. This can be based on their raise size, position, frequency of raises, etc. Ideally you'll wanna be in the BB since there is no one left to act behind you who can wake up with a hand. Also you'll need to note the person's stack size, i.e. if they have ~10bb's and they open raise the majority of the time they're not gonna fold to your re-steal. You'd rather the effective stack sizes be more like 12-15bb's I think, even that might be a little low.

As for the hand itself, I think you have to call the 4-bet as played, the odds you are getting are too good even if your opponent is shoving pretty narrow. If you lose you have about an average stack left, however if you win you will absolutely run this table over.

edit: Just saw the read on the BB, looking at Pokerstove, if he's only shoving QQ+ and AK then we can fold, if we add JJ to that it becomes very close, and wider than that and we can call.

 

[OzExorcist]

As played, if you're comfortable with that as the big blind's range we have to fold as we're only 25-75 against it and a big stack is very valuable at this point so I'd rather hang onto as much of it as possible.

The price you'd be comfortable calling at is kind of difficult to talk about because for us to be getting a better price villain has to have a shorter stack and if he's got a shorter stack it's possible for it to affect our read. So unless you think he's only getting in with QQ+/AK well below the 10BB level we've got to start widening his range to include maybe TT+/AK or wider as he gets shorter... which means we're getting a better price against a wider range, which makes it easier to call and also leaves us with more behind if we call and lose.

 

[BigThingWithHolesInIt]

Little late with the reply, but thanks a lot for the responses. They went their way to give me more insight in the use of this technique. There is no coolness factor involved, just me wanting to learn about the many ways to play the game. I guess the 3-bet light is mostly a cash game thing, not something I want to use often in a low stakes SNG with 50 BB starting stacks?

I did end up making the call btw, went up against KK, rivered a straight and got an earful from BB. Heh. Glad I still posted the hand because I had a sinking feeling I did some bad things there

@baudib1, you suggested folding to the first raise. Why don't I call?

 

[HomeBrewer]

@baudib1, you suggested folding to the first raise. Why don't I call?

If you know this person to only play hands such as QQ and his blind, why would you think KQ is any good here? I think a call is the worst thing you can do. If you catch, you are likely up against an over pair or TPTK. It is a bad idea because you know he is only playing premium hands. As you saw when all the chips went in the middle.

Good job on the suck out

 

[BigThingWithHolesInIt]

No no the initial raiser wasn't the über-nit, that was the BB. CO was raising wide pre-flop and would become very timid post.

 

[HomeBrewer]

No no the initial raiser wasn't the über-nit, that was the BB. CO was raising wide pre-flop and would become very timid post.

You are right. I misread the hand. If you flat, I hope you can get away from the 3-bet that is coming from the BB though.