$2.20 NLHE Turbo: AJo with 4 callers, flopped ace facing all in

[ben_rhyno]

$2.20 NL HE Turbo: AJo with 4 callers, flopped ace facing all in

pokerstars Game #47333941622: Tournament #295601817, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2010/07/27 12:18:48 UTC [2010/07/27 8:18:48 ET]
Table '295601817 13' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: LRSmithy (1680 in chips)
Seat 2: tony365 (2270 in chips)
Seat 3: 00PokerPaule (6495 in chips)
Seat 4: GEFRE (5015 in chips)
Seat 5: ben-rhyno (3530 in chips)
Seat 6: tupeee (1045 in chips)
Seat 7: Marc2708 (2620 in chips)
Seat 8: bergodi79 (3485 in chips)
Seat 9: swillobeck72 (10715 in chips)
tupeee: posts small blind 50
Marc2708: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ben-rhyno [Ac Jd]
bergodi79: calls 100
swillobeck72: folds
LRSmithy: folds
tony365: folds
00PokerPaule: calls 100
GEFRE: calls 100
ben-rhyno: raises 300 to 400
tupeee: folds
Marc2708: folds
bergodi79: calls 300
00PokerPaule: calls 300
GEFRE: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [Tc Ah 5s]
bergodi79: bets 3085 and is all-in
00PokerPaule: folds
GEFRE: folds
ben-rhyno ????????????

Pretty sure this is a fold?

 

[WiZZiM]

I'd be snapping this, but thats just my opinion.

 

[ben_rhyno]

I thought he could have held AQ or AT, as he could have 3-bet me PF with AK and TT? So you snap call here? Why?

 

[WiZZiM]

Because we're ~30BB's deep, this looks like a massive bluff, and i expect to be ahead of his range which would include a lot of Ax type hands, bluffs and bad draws.

 

[ben_rhyno]

Ok thank you. I wasn't sure whether this was the best spot to risk my tournament life, but I can see it was probably as good a spot as any

 

[Worak]

Without reads....: bergodi79 (the utg limper/caller) - donk shoves the flop.

I'm trying to put myself into his shoes (if possible).

If he has any idea of post flop play and hit this flop hard (TPGK, 2pr, set) would he donk shove the flop oop?

I doubt it - he would want a call to get more value and not a fold - given that he doesn't think you'd be ready to call a shove with any Ax.

The board isn't that drawy (exept the gutshots vs. KQ, KJ and 43,42,32) but let's assume he doesn't think you are raising 43, 42, 32 with sb,bb and utg still having to act.

So his overshove doesn't look as if it's intended to push you off a draw (would be weird to play it like that anyhow).

What is the limp/call range of opponent utg ?

Without knowing his vpip it's a guess - pps 22-99, A2-A9s/o, maybe A10, AJ

I don't think he will be limp/calling 1010+, AQ, AK.

Looking at pot odds you'd be getting about 1.5 to 1 if you called.

Conclusion: If I had to put villain on a hand I'd think it would be Ax being unsure how to play it postflop - he might have used his whole stack to scare you off.

I'd call.

Please point out any mistakes in thinking I made.

 

[ben_rhyno]

No I like your reasoning Graf, I don't have a stat tracker, so don't really have a good idea of how he plays either as I was moved onto the table shortly befire this. I think it was a mistake to fold

 

[ben_rhyno]

My thinking also is, if i put myself in his shoes, theres a strong possibility of A10 to me, as i just can't see him open shoving that flop with a weak ace. However, you guys know much better than me so I hold your opinions in higher regard than my own

 

[TheKAAHK]

After reading through the hand two or three times, I can easily see how your opponent could have A10.

Ok, let's say he limped A10 utg. Sees 2 callers, and a weak raise from the button. He figures there's already enough in the pot ($850) to call another $300. If he's already limping A10 utg, this seems like something he would do as well.

Now with two more callers making the pot total $1450, and the board showing 10 A 5, he shoves thinking either:

1) that somebody (ie. the initial raiser) is going to call with AJ+ figuring the shove to be a bluff or weaker ace.

OR

2) knowing that if he bet, say 2/3 pot (say $1000) and got called, he would have only $2085 left to shove into a $3450 pot. Not a good spot to be in if any paint hits the turn. So he shoves and either takes down the pot right then or gets called by a hand he is most lkely ahead of after the flop.

Now this is not a great way for your opp to play a hand like A 10, but I've seen this many times, especially in low/micro tourneys.

Just thought I'd throw in a different opinion here.

 

[Worak]

My thinking also is, if i put myself in his shoes, theres a strong possibility of A10 to me, as i just can't see him open shoving that flop with a weak ace. However, you guys know much better than me so I hold your opinions in higher regard than my own

Don't give me too much credit ben, I could be wrong in this particular spot easily.

After reading through the hand two or three times, I can easily see how your opponent could have A10.

Ok, let's say he limped A10 utg. Sees 2 callers, and a weak raise from the button. He figures there's already enough in the pot ($850) to call another $300. If he's already limping A10 utg, this seems like something he would do as well.

Now with two more callers making the pot total $1450, and the board showing 10 A 5, he shoves thinking either:

1) that somebody (ie. the initial raiser) is going to call with AJ+ figuring the shove to be a bluff or weaker ace.

OR

2) knowing that if he bet, say 2/3 pot (say $1000) and got called, he would have only $2085 left to shove into a $3450 pot. Not a good spot to be in if any paint hits the turn. So he shoves and either takes down the pot right then or gets called by a hand he is most lkely ahead of after the flop.

Now this is not a great way for your opp to play a hand like A 10, but I've seen this many times, especially in low/micro tourneys.

Just thought I'd throw in a different opinion here.

I understand your reasoning TK and villain could have had A10 which we'll never know but at this level (it's the one I'm playing myself most of the time) I see more of the Ax type hands shoving in this spot than level 3 thinking opponents.

 

[ben_rhyno]

After reading through the hand two or three times, I can easily see how your opponent could have A10.

Ok, let's say he limped A10 utg. Sees 2 callers, and a weak raise from the button. He figures there's already enough in the pot ($850) to call another $300. If he's already limping A10 utg, this seems like something he would do as well.

Now with two more callers making the pot total $1450, and the board showing 10 A 5, he shoves thinking either:

1) that somebody (ie. the initial raiser) is going to call with AJ+ figuring the shove to be a bluff or weaker ace.

OR

2) knowing that if he bet, say 2/3 pot (say $1000) and got called, he would have only $2085 left to shove into a $3450 pot. Not a good spot to be in if any paint hits the turn. So he shoves and either takes down the pot right then or gets called by a hand he is most lkely ahead of after the flop.

Now this is not a great way for your opp to play a hand like A 10, but I've seen this many times, especially in low/micro tourneys.

Just thought I'd throw in a different opinion here.

This was more or less my exact thought process

 

[TheKAAHK]

So. How did it end up playing out Ben?

 

[ben_rhyno]

I tanked for a while and folded, he didn't show or anything, but I still had plenty of chips to play with. I'm pretty convinced i was beat anyways

 

[atlantafalcons0]

As played - call.

Preflop - why not raise to about 600? (3x BB + 1BB per limp)

 

[Slow Roll Poker]

I would have pushed all-in right there on the flop.