$2.20 NLHE MTT: Reraise for Value with Trips on Wet Board

[byrnsiey330]

Table and Position Review
Game #77011246-27: $200 Gtd - [+R, Turbo] - No Limit Holdem Tournament - 50.00/100.00

Seat #0: danilo10, $3601.00
Seat #1: SapoCocas20, $3920.00
Seat #2: OSUbeavers503, $8585.00
Seat #3: ElLoboLoco2 (D), $7590.00
Seat #5: rdominy2 (SB), $8260.00
Seat #6: hero (BB), $2678.00
Seat #7: BngRps, $3880.00
Seat #8: GilaBender54, $1170.00

*** Blinds ***
rdominy2 posts the small blind of 50.00
Hero posts the big blind of 100.00

*** Pre-Flop ***
Hero got hole cards [ 6d: 3c: ]
BngRps calls 100.00
GilaBender54 folds
danilo10 calls 100.00
SapoCocas20 folds
OSUbeavers503 folds
ElLoboLoco2 folds
rdominy2 calls 50.00
Hero checks

*** Flop *** Pot: 400
[ 3h: Ah: 9d: ]
rdominy2 checks
Hero checks
BngRps checks
danilo10 checks

*** Turn *** Pot: 400
[ 3h: Ah: 9d: ] [ 2s: ]
rdominy2 checks
Hero checks
BngRps checks
danilo10 bets 200.00
rdominy2 folds
Hero calls 200.00
BngRps calls 200.00

*** River *** Pot: 1000
[ 3h: Ah: 9d: ] [ 2s: ] [ 3d: ]
Hero checks
BngRps bets 540.00
danilo10 folds
Hero?

If I reraise I probably will get called by a weak ace which could be in the UTG limps range. But the board is very coordinated. Not sure if I should just call or reraise.

 

[warturtle7]

On the turn i would probably fold since your hand against 2 opponents is never the best and you only have like 10% chance to improve on the river.
As played i would probably based my decision on my opponent. For example do you think he would limp utg 54s? Because given the action that makes sense.
If not i would probably re raise to get value from aces

 

[MadMaddie]

I think the call on the turn is bad and is being very optimistic. I cannot see making that call even if it is still in the rebuy time part.

 

[byrnsiey330]

I think the call on the turn is bad and is being very optimistic. I cannot see making that call even if it is still in the rebuy time part.

Why is the turn call bad?

I don't think that the flop hits a lot of hands in UTG limp and MP limp.

Let's say their ranges are: 22-77, A2-A8, K4-K9, Q5-Q9, 56s+ and maybe a few disguised monsters: QQ-KK.

My equity against that range is still 50% on the turn. I'm getting 3 to 1 odds so all i really need is 25% equity.

And yes I think that is a pretty reasonable range seeing as it could be a delayed cont. bet trying to steal the pot.

Now for the river, I'm not sure if I am going to get called by a hand that beats me or not. and that's the question. So what do you think?

 

[WiZZiM]

think about what your numbers above are suggesting bryn. They are suggesting that they will bet all of those hands on the turn, against all of that range, we have 50% equity sure, great, cool. But that's never the case. Think about what they will actually bet here in a multiway pot with an ace on the board. Aces freeze players in their tracks, it's the ultimate scare card.

So, ranges here they can be better for value, possibly some 9x, definitely weak Ax type hands, also weaker pocket pair type hands may be feeling good after all the checks on the flop and bet to 'protect'. he could also have some sort of werid straight draw/flush draw. Now against all of that, considering we have a weak hand, AND we have one more street of poker to play without the initiative. how much showdown value do you think we can realisically expect holding this hand? and how many river cards are going to be that great for us that we can call another bet on the river?

So your thinking is flawed, your numbers above are very flawed. Instead, can i suggest you just use common sense here instead.

preFlop
weak hand, don't give a **** about it, lets move onto the next hand already unless we flop huge.

flop
oh a pair, well i still don't really care, in multiway pots i know that bottom pair's value is reduced just due to the higher frequency of villians having hands.

turn
doesn't really change much from the flop, i might be ahead of some hands, but if someone bets, i can't assume they are bluffing here, and if they are, they still have the river. Oh i face a bet, well, he might be bluffing, but odds are he's betting for value and since i have no solid READS to suggest otherwise i'll happily fold here and get to the next hand. If i call here, i still have to face a possible river bet, so when i think about odds, i have to think about the possible/highly likely river bet here as well.

River (if we get there)
gin card, well i put him on value hands, most of his drawing hands missed IF he had them, but i put him heavily on Ax 9x type hands on the turn when i made that bad call, so i'm def going to raise for value here, if we're beat, we deserve it for making a very questionable call on the turn.

Pretty basic thought process above, but one that will hopefully help you to lose less chips and of course, less real $ in the future.

 

[Arjonius]

Fold the turn. Like wizzim, I question how accurate the stated range is. For instance, you've eliminated holdings like 88-JJ, AA, 33 and 99. These may not be the best fits for the action to that point, but none of them seem impossible either.

You're saying danilo will bet into 3 people often enough with hands like Q8 and 56s to include them in his range, but that he won't have hands like the ones I listed often enough to include them.

Also, when it's your turn, how can you assign your range to both opponents when one is still to act? The pot odds to call were not 4:1 at your turn to act, so they are based on 20:20 hindsight, not what you knew at your turn.

And what's your basis for calling the final board very coordinated? How wet a board is depends on more than just what cards it contains. How well or poorly those cards fit the players' ranges matters too. Having rivered trips, how wet the board is depends on BngRps' range when he bets and what proportion of this range beats you. Considering your ranging on the turn already eliminated hands like 99 and 45, what's left in his range that beats you when he bets the river isn't much. So if you believe your ranging, this board isn't very wet .

 

[MadMaddie]

Why is the turn call bad?

think about what your numbers above are suggesting bryn. They are suggesting that they will bet all of those hands on the turn, against all of that range, we have 50% equity sure, great, cool. But that's never the case. Think about what they will actually bet here in a multiway pot with an ace on the board. Aces freeze players in their tracks, it's the ultimate scare card.

So, ranges here they can be better for value, possibly some 9x, definitely weak Ax type hands, also weaker pocket pair type hands may be feeling good after all the checks on the flop and bet to 'protect'. he could also have some sort of werid straight draw/flush draw. Now against all of that, considering we have a weak hand, AND we have one more street of poker to play without the initiative. how much showdown value do you think we can realisically expect holding this hand? and how many river cards are going to be that great for us that we can call another bet on the river?

So your thinking is flawed, your numbers above are very flawed. Instead, can i suggest you just use common sense here instead.

preFlop
weak hand, don't give a **** about it, lets move onto the next hand already unless we flop huge.

flop
oh a pair, well i still don't really care, in multiway pots i know that bottom pair's value is reduced just due to the higher frequency of villians having hands.

turn
doesn't really change much from the flop, i might be ahead of some hands, but if someone bets, i can't assume they are bluffing here, and if they are, they still have the river. Oh i face a bet, well, he might be bluffing, but odds are he's betting for value and since i have no solid READS to suggest otherwise i'll happily fold here and get to the next hand. If i call here, i still have to face a possible river bet, so when i think about odds, i have to think about the possible/highly likely river bet here as well.

River (if we get there)
gin card, well i put him on value hands, most of his drawing hands missed IF he had them, but i put him heavily on Ax 9x type hands on the turn when i made that bad call, so i'm def going to raise for value here, if we're beat, we deserve it for making a very questionable call on the turn.

Pretty basic thought process above, but one that will hopefully help you to lose less chips and of course, less real $ in the future.

This is why but omfg I could never dream of saying it like this but just know in my head that is is not good to call there.
This is a excellent reply here and I will copy it to my notes to look at in the future. :tee:

 

[DonkeyH3AD]

What You expected for calling 200 on turn with 3 6?
You just suck out what You want in this spot do not reraise becuase...
1. You are in shortstack if You rerasie and loose You wll got a crap stack do not risk You tournament
2. If someone bet on river after rasie of another player on turn when 3 players are in there are very small chance that he/she is bluffing it looks like clear value bet with hand like 22, A3 or likely for You A9
just call 540 and do not call turn next time on situations like this because its a just fishing.

 

[horizon12]

So lucky when u get trips in river, was in turn easy fold only with 3 pair when stay 26bb, we only can call when deep stack, about river trips easy shove , him range many Ax, and u can bluffing what not closed draw what villain call shove,.