1st hand SNG

[Chevren]

This is the first hand of a 6.60 6 man turbo I'm on the button with absolutly no reads on villian. What do you do in this situation?

pokerstars Game #13564948783: Tournament #68808899, $6.00+$0.60 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/11/30 - 15:53:43 (ET)
Table '68808899 1' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Chevren (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: gtlpuddle (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: flyer 89 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: McBain75 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: BurningOC420 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: aryanbro1488 (1500 in chips)
gtlpuddle: posts small blind 10
flyer 89: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chevren [Jh Jc]
McBain75: folds
BurningOC420: raises 120 to 140
aryanbro1488: folds
Chevren: calls 140
gtlpuddle: folds
flyer 89: folds
*** FLOP *** [4s 2h 8d]
BurningOC420: bets 1360 and is all-in

 

[DetroitJimmy]

Personally,I would fold.I think at best you're in a race situation.It is way to early(even in a turbo) to be coinflipping for stacks.

 

[ChuckTs]

Why are you calling preflop?

 

[DetroitJimmy]

Why are you calling preflop?

Damn I'm an idiot,I thought all this action was preflop.As played I think you should call.Only a few hands have you crushed.If you have to post this question here than I assume you are not one of the best players at the table(no offense) and you should try to build a big stack early .

 

[Kenzie 96]

Calling pre flop leaves you with 140 fewer chips & no new information, if you aren't going to push back at him fold pre flop.

 

[Melkor]

The big raise pre flop and the massive overbet on the flop seem to suggest a hand like AK, AQ, KQ, something like that. He is worried in a turbo that people will call with nothing pre flop and is trying to shove them out and has panicked on the flop. I struggle to see him playing AA, KK or QQ like this, and a set would not be shoved. It is a turbo, you need to double up and the action so far suggests you are ahead, imho.

Agree with the said comments on pre flop though, just can't call.

 

[vanquish]

$6 I think I snapcall here.

 

[dj11]

'There are only 3 ways to play jacks, all of them wrong!' Quote from somebody here who was quoting somebody from somewhere else.

Pick the one that fits;

-Raise em
-Call em
-Fold em in holdem

TY, TYVM :ciao:

Lest you think I'm being a bit too flippant or sarcastic, well, besides that, this is a classic damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I agree you are probably ahead. However, this is the first hand and the possibility of AA, KK, QQ or a pp that matches the board (giving the set) is real enough that to continue in this hand violates the most fundamental concept of tourney poker.

That concept says 'SURVIVE'.

 

[Melkor]

I agree you are probably ahead. However, this is the first hand and the possibility of AA, KK, QQ or a pp that matches the board (giving the set) is real enough that to continue in this hand violates the most fundamental concept of tourney poker.

That concept says 'SURVIVE'.

I am not sure about that, basically because I agree, lol. The concept is to survive and therefore in a turbo, with the blinds going up and chipping away at the stack, a double up at some point is necessary. I can't see many more situations where you would have the chance to knock someone out and when the action would suggest we were ahead a lot of the time.

 

[Chevren]

Why are you calling preflop?

I assume you are saying why am I not reraising, because from the experiance I have had at this level A LOT of players are rereraising all in with AK/AQ and much worse, why face a 50/50 race when I could attempt to see a flop if favorable extract as much money as possible if an ace or king or any bad flop comes I can get away without losing more than the 140 chips and still leave myself with plenty of chips to compete for a win. I play much more passive early in these tournaments and it works out for me pretty well because I have a lot of faith in my short stack/ bubble play so I dont feel the need to chip up early.

If you have to post this question here than I assume you are not one of the best players at the table(no offense) and you should try to build a big stack early .

Well while there is some truth to that... I am by no means the best player at this level or any level for that matter and I have no problem admitting that what you said is very offensive and I definatly take it as that.

I posted this hand here because it is not often that I run into very difficult desicions early in these SNGs and was hoping I would get some validation on the move I made, I put the villian on AK/AQ/KK/QQ and a slim chance he has AA 2 of which I am a decent favorite and 3 of which I am dominated so I folded. Villian showed KK and obviously I felt good about this perticular move but was wondering if some of the more experianced players had faced decisions like this and how they played it.

At first when he moved all in I thought he doesnt want me to call what can that mean he has overcards and puts me on a middle pair or overcards that he doesnt want me to hit or he has KK QQ very unlikly JJ and doesnt want me (a complete unknown and if he assumes I am a typical player at this limit) to hit my AK/AQ/AJ/A rag so I gave him the benefit of the doubt which I often do until proven wrong assumed him for a decent player and folded.

It turned out to be a good move but was wondering what some of the more experianced SNG players like ChuckTs would do in this situation as played.

 

[Four Dogs]

I disagree about the coin toss. In a LL SnG a PF raise could mean anything. Sure it could be AK or AQ, but those are only a small part of a much larger range of possible raising hands and even with that I would RR. You've got position and a strong hand if your called.

In fact, that huge raise looks scared to me. I'd be more likely to put him on a small pair. No good player would make a bet like this which makes his rediculous all-in bet on the flop harder to read which in-turn means he could have flopped a set. But still, this is a $6 SnG, not the wsop. Call.

 

[bw07507]

I just can't see AA/KK playing this way and a set is definately not doing this, so I would call this. Especially early in the tournament. I feel you are ahead of his range and I am fine taking a gamble early in a S&G. Either you are out and waste no time (Finishing last is better than finishing 4th) or you double up early and have a great chance of making the money.

 

[Chevren]

I disagree about the coin toss. In a LL SnG a PF raise could mean anything. Sure it could be AK or AQ, but those are only a small part of a much larger range of possible raising hands and even with that I would RR. You've got position and a strong hand if your called.

In fact, that huge raise looks scared to me. I'd be more likely to put him on a small pair. No good player would make a bet like this which makes his rediculous all-in bet on the flop harder to read which in-turn means he could have flopped a set. But still, this is a $6 SnG, not the WSOP. Call.

I agree to an extant with that preflop the thing is I see a lot of the hands that raise big preflop pushing to a reraise which is exactly what I dont want even with Ax I'm not that big of a favorite and will not feel all that comfortable getting everything in preflop.

In these 6 man SNGs people tend to overplay all thier cards so its not hard to cash playing tight but I may play a little too nit sometimes, I was actually wondering if there was some sort of session analysis that people did here where I could submit my HH from a few SNGs and get some feedback on my play?

 

[Four Dogs]

Sure, it's been done before. If you're not afraid of a little constructive criticism you can post a session to megaupload or just e-mail it to anyone interested in running it through Poker Tracker. I'd be happy to take a look, but for real expert analysis your best bet for nlh is ChuckTs, Tenbob or Dorkus Malorkus. There are several others who's opinions I hold in high reguard. The more the merrier. GL.

 

[Mortis]

Personally, I would have folded only because I hate going all-in on the first hand unless I have AA or KK.

 

[pjr54]

Personally I would have either raised preflop or folded. Since you only called, I would have folded to the allin.

 

[Cheetah]

Preflop, I would fold because most of the time you will see overcards on the flop and it will be hard to play especially against a maniac.

Since you called, on the flop I would definitely call the ridiculous overbet. Folding cannot be an option here. This is one of the best possible flops for JJ. We are against a maniac. Most of the time, we have him crushed. He may have top pair or lower overpair or much worse.

Also, why call preflop a large raise only to fold on the flop when we hit about the best we could hope for?

 

[Playmaker]

At this Level Im not sure....I Could see calling this at 6.60 Level because you see all kinds of nonsense...With Aces Kings Or Queens at this level I know I dont fold here though...But Jacks? hummmm I would prob Fold but this is Borderline IMO

 

[ChuckTs]

Preflop, I would fold because most of the time you will see overcards on the flop and it will be hard to play especially against a maniac.

...

We are against a maniac.

Folding is not an option. This is a $6 stt and we're significantly ahead of an unknown's range. We should be reraising almost all the time here because players will often play 99 and AJ-type hands this way. We've got huge equity here and at these stakes I might even be prepared to call a shove. Players get this idea that they have to play incredibly looser than normal in the 6-max stts and will often show down very marginal hands here.

Also, why are we assuming he's a maniac? This is the first hand of the sng.

Sure, villain is betting wildly, but I've also been up against the consistent (tag) winners in certain sngs who play big pairs exactly this way because they'll get almost any pair to call, and occasionally AK from the worse players.

Even if we knew he were a maniac, why are we caving to his aggression with our monsters??? These are the spots you want to punish them with.2

In short, I think we'll be up against a wide enough range preflop that we have to 3-bet it. If we get shoved into then I'm probably calling if I'm properly rolled since we've invested no time yet. As played I'm definitely calling. Like Cheetah said, calling preflop and folding this flop is just silly and doesn't carry any decent logic. Villain's on two big cards and small pairs most of the time here IMO.

 

[Chevren]

alright I was a little drunk the other night and to quote you...

sigh, the things brandy will make you say.

anyways yeah I called with my jacks thinking this guy definatly has overs and doesnt want me to call but he had KK and I cried.... but seriously ChuckT, Tenbob, Four Dogs I would really appreciate a session analysis Four Dogs you already agreeed so you are sucked in but Chuck Tenbob AlienGenius and anyone else that excells at nlhe SNGs I would really appreciate if you could take a look at a few of my SNG HH and criticize me.

 

[ChuckTs]

how about you upload a session to megaupload and then post the link. I'll take a look. If you don't want it that public then PM me for my email address.

 

[Chevren]

I would upload a session but honestly I have no idea how to capture a game or two... I'm a little computer illiterate

 

[ChuckTs]

Do you not have Pokertracker? Also, which site do you play?

 

[Chevren]

I play full tilt and recently pokerstars both poorly, and no I dont have poker tracker I plan on funding that with my bankroll but I cant seem to break much above even sober and when I drink it plumits lol.

 

[ChuckTs]

Well I think you can email FTP and ask them for your hand histories for a certain tournament (or you could just play one and ask for your last tournament). Then you could just forward that to me via email.

With pokerstars you can request summaries from Request menu>Hand History...>then request via whatever way is easiest there. Then again you could forward that email to me.

(having pokertracker would make this 1000000x easier )