$11 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: JJ in a WEIRD spot

[JohnBoyWWFC]

full tilt poker No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (9 handed) - Full Tilt Poker Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

UTG (t3691)
UTG+1 (t9719)
MP1 (t3470)
MP2 (t8268)
MP3 (t9911)
CO (t5110)
Button (t4630)
Hero (SB) (t9933)
BB (t2869)

Hero's M: 66.22

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

, J

UTG bets t200, UTG+1 calls t200, 5 folds, Hero raises to t900, 1 fold, UTG raises to t3691 (All-In), UTG+1 calls t3491,

Ok, so what do we do here? We have a strong hand, but for some bizarre reason attempting to isolate the shortstack failed. I didn't mind a shove from the SS, because he was playing fairly loose and I thought I was ahead most of the time, but the other caller has called his shove too. I don't know what he has but I figure I'm at worst coinflipping AK/AQ because he would surely re raise with a bigger pair so even if I'm behind the shortstack shove, if I can suck in the other caller who surely can't fold once investing half his stack I still come out with more chips if I win the pot. This guy has made some strange plays with random cards from all positions, things like suited connectors from UTG and raggy Aces, I feel like I have them both crushed and there's a lot of value here, If I win im getting about 23k from my 9k, so would a shove be preferential here? Is he ever slowplaying a monster like QQ+ with the flat and then another flat meaning im a 20% dog? I hate flat calling for a third of my stack so it really feels like fold or shove.

Thoughts?

 

[baudib1]

I think I'd break my mouse trying to get it in here. UTG+1 has some medium sooted Ace or a stupid hand like 44-77.

 

[brackdog]

Had you been raising a lot of pots prior to this hand? Cause neither of them seems to give you much credit for having a hand. It's almost like your raise was an afterthought to them.

This is the kind of loose, passive play you see all the time in private freerolls: min raise (or limp), followed by a call or reraise of a large 3bet. Surprised to see it at this level, and I would be very surprised if you were not best hand here preflop. Only time I ever see someone hiding in the tall grass with a big pair or AK is if they're stalking a maniac who has been shoving every hand.

That said, I don't want to play JJ against the two of them. I don't have a clue what UTG+1 is doing in the hand, and I'm not going to walk that nice stack into a dark room when a flopped Q might beat me and there may not be much in the way of redraw possibilities.

bd

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

No, I hadn't been raising much at all. I'd 3 bet maybe 1 hand and been quite tight, only got the double when I had AQ with Top Two and a LAG shoved AJ with a flush draw, so I think I have quite a tight image.

You'd advocate shoving then to isolate the shortstack and on the premise that big stack doesn't have a monster because he didn't re-pop it pre and really can't put his tournament life on the line with marginal holdings against a TAG?

 

[brackdog]

Sorry, no. I'd advocate folding, because I don't have a clue as to what the big stack has, and your stack is too nice to go on a blind date.

bd

 

[pcgnome]

With two pot commited players in early position I would usually be folding pocket jacks.

I wouldn't think that jacks are going to hold all the way to the river unless you hit another one. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody already had a big ace or a bigger pair.

I don't think your going to isolate the short stack at this point. I think that you are going to shove, And UTG+1 calls.

I wouldn't shove. the other guy usually has QQ, then I'm screwed.

 

[baudib1]

folding in this spot is burning money. no one plays QQ+ this way.

 

[pcgnome]

folding in this spot is burning money. no one plays QQ+ this way.

That's an interesting observation...can you elaborate?

 

[baudib1]

Who overlimps QQ+ after a shortstack from EP and THEN doesn't reshove with a raiser and shove after him? UTG+1 is a fish with a weak hand like 88/AJ almost 90% of the time.

 

[fletchdad]

Its hard to say w/o knowing more about UTG+1. It is a weird line. It looks to me like he is inviting you to shove on him. But why? AA? He wants you to try to push him of the SS iso play with your shove so he can call?
Or he is a clueless fish.

Whats your read on him till now?

 

[baudib1]

UTG can have QQ+, but UTG+1 cannot.

He CAN have overcards though, but JJ still crushes his calling range, so shove.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

This is my thoughts. I don't mind too much is UTG has QQ+ or I'm raching AK or AQ because I think I'm SO FAR ahead of UTG+1s range that a shove is profitable because although I'll lose 3k of my 9 k to the SS, I'll gain 6k leaving me with 12k from the big stack. Of course he could have A7s or something like that and hit an Ace, but I'm not going to fold every time I'm in a great spot because villain might suck out on me. If I get it in good, I'm happy.

I'm interested on why you think UTG+1 would have QQ+ in that spot, I can't ever understand why he'd play it like that. I mean I can understand a slowplay, but in EP, on a not particularly crazy table, he has no guarantee of being able to get it in, I just don't understand the play/

 

[pcgnome]

Who overlimps QQ+ after a shortstack from EP and THEN doesn't reshove with a raiser and shove after him? UTG+1 is a fish with a weak hand like 88/AJ almost 90% of the time.

+1

 

[ljove]

JJ fold
i think all of you knows this story.
You are playing tight and some LAG guy is donking around raising stealing bluffing etc...
You wait to get some decent hand and pray for him involved
Here is the hand.You have jacks, he limped in you raised and he pushes all in.....thinking..........calling and boom he got aces or kings

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

But I haven't been LAG raising stealing and bluffing. And my point is I don't mind if UTG has QQ KK or AA if I can draw the other caller in because I'm so sure I'm ahead of him.

 

[Pascal-lf]

Thing that confuses me is you keep referring to UTG as "short stack" - he's got 36BB!

Normally I'd just fold but if UTG+1 really is as bad as you say he is then ship it in and expect him to call with stuff like A8s and lower pocket pairs.

Oh and once you've shoved add me on Skype!

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Yeah, good point, but really, there's like 8k in the pot by now and it's 2.5k to call so I'm getting massive odds here to just call, I can't really justify folding for such a good price with this big a hand. Anyone want to know results?

 

[Pascal-lf]

Don't see how you can ever just call here when he'll be able to play really unexploitably post flop by checking down worse and betting better putting you in really horrible spots post.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

I know which is why it's such a sick spot. Anyway, I did shove, and UTG had A8s, so I was ahead of him, beautiful, UTG+1 calls and has, ofc QQ. Anyone see that coming. Two 8s hit the flop so they both stayed alive and left me crippled, I shove 99 from CO soon after and ran into QQ from the same guy again. GG.

Oh Pascal, hit me up about that Skype thing. PM!