$11 NLHE Deep Stacked: I got flamed for calling this was i wrong to?

[malice777]

$11 NL HE Deep Stacked: I got flamed for calling this was i wrong to?

pokerstars Game #33784201640: Tournament #200030384, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2009/10/08 17:44:36 WET [2009/10/08 12:44:36 ET]
Table '200030384 14' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: taepod (15950 in chips)
Seat 2: janik446 (4355 in chips)
Seat 3: malice777 (6965 in chips)
Seat 4: beckybaby55 (5620 in chips)
Seat 5: CardsFan54 (4150 in chips)
Seat 6: Com. Tomson (17955 in chips)
Seat 7: Exalador (4565 in chips)
Seat 8: luizinhoob (5300 in chips)
Seat 9: 23ekonge (4550 in chips)
janik446: posts small blind 15
malice777: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to malice777 [8s 9h]
beckybaby55: raises 30 to 60
CardsFan54: folds
Com. Tomson: folds
Exalador: folds
luizinhoob: raises 90 to 150
23ekonge: folds
taepod: folds
janik446: calls 135
malice777: calls 120
beckybaby55: calls 90

was i wrong to call the reraise with 89os result later

 

[TheNoob]

I don't know what the people who actually know what they are talking about will say, but I'm folding 89o to a raise / re-raise in this situation virtually always.

 

[malice777]

Thanks thenoob I figured that 120 chips at this stage was cheap enough to see the flop with connecters I was also thinking that high pair or ak woulda bet higher so worth a punt.

 

[malice777]

anyway this is what happened...

PokerStars Game #33784201640: Tournament #200030384, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2009/10/08 17:44:36 WET [2009/10/08 12:44:36 ET]
Table '200030384 14' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: taepod (15950 in chips)
Seat 2: janik446 (4355 in chips)
Seat 3: malice777 (6965 in chips)
Seat 4: beckybaby55 (5620 in chips)
Seat 5: CardsFan54 (4150 in chips)
Seat 6: Com. Tomson (17955 in chips)
Seat 7: Exalador (4565 in chips)
Seat 8: luizinhoob (5300 in chips)
Seat 9: 23ekonge (4550 in chips)
janik446: posts small blind 15
malice777: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to malice777 [8s 9h]
beckybaby55: raises 30 to 60
CardsFan54: folds
Com. Tomson: folds
Exalador: folds
malice777 said, "too weak"
luizinhoob: raises 90 to 150
23ekonge: folds
taepod: folds
janik446: calls 135
malice777: calls 120
beckybaby55: calls 90
*** FLOP *** [6d 7h 5c]
janik446: checks
malice777: bets 60
beckybaby55: calls 60
luizinhoob: raises 810 to 870
janik446: folds
malice777: raises 810 to 1680
beckybaby55: folds
luizinhoob: raises 3470 to 5150 and is all-in
malice777: calls 3470
*** TURN *** [6d 7h 5c] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [6d 7h 5c 6s] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
malice777: shows [8s 9h] (a straight, Five to Nine)
luizinhoob: shows [Ks Kc] (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
malice777 collected 10960 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10960 | Rake 0
Board [6d 7h 5c 6s 8c]
Seat 1: taepod (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: janik446 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: malice777 (big blind) showed [8s 9h] and won (10960) with a straight, Five to Nine
Seat 4: beckybaby55 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: CardsFan54 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Com. Tomson folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Exalador folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: luizinhoob showed [Ks Kc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Sixes
Seat 9: 23ekonge folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[kesza]

I would fold that. Raise + reraise, you NEED a straightdraw or a flopped set to have a chance to win that hand.

 

[malice777]

i think it was luizinhoob who played it wrong by playing KK too weak

 

[kesza]

ok but don't try it again next time! lol
how many percent the chance of that hit, anybody knows?

 

[TheNoob]

Thanks thenoob I figured that 120 chips at this stage was cheap enough to see the flop with connecters I was also thinking that high pair or ak woulda bet higher so worth a punt.

Ah, the dream flop. (is the villain KGB by any chance?) YouTube - Rounders (12/12) not the same exact hand, but your downcards are pretty close.

Win=Good. (Well, we know that's not true, but you get to stack chips and they don't)

My reasoning for folding was:

-Obviously the raise / re-raise
-You're only getting a little over 2:1 on the call
-You're out of position
-The hand is pretty weak

It doesn't hurt to pull one out of thin air once in a while ......

 

[Jillychemung]

With reasonable ranges for the other 3 opponents you have about a 15% chance of winning. So in order to play these cards preflop you need to win a bit over T$1000 every 7 times just to come out even (based on a T$150 preflop cost). While your immediate odds were not good enough, your implied odds probably were. I guess it all depends on the volume of tournaments that you play whether these hands will have a long term +EV for you.

equity
Hand 0: 19.339% { 55+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A7o+, A5o, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
Hand 1: 37.107% { 88+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
Hand 2: 27.891% { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 3: 15.664% { 9h8s }

 

[jordanbillie]

I don't like you leading out with 60 on that flop. With that many players, just check it next time.

 

[trashcan]

This is a definite fold preflop, you can play this maybe for 30 chips total but calling 120 is not good here, odds are not there

 

[M33K3R]

I think you definitely fold. Your oop and have a weak hand on a 3 bet preflop.

 

[Implied Odds3]

Someone raised, then someone reraised to 5xbb... Thats effectively a 5xbb raise but you already know there is another person who has a strong hand as well.

Bad call especially considering you were OOP..

And the guy who had kings didn't play too weak... He would have most likely won against the original raiser's range. He didn't expect someone to cll with 8 9..... lol.

 

[beechleaf]

no the KK raises was too weak think you made the right call its too live cards and a cheap raise worth seeing the flop

 

[JustRaiseTheBlinds]

Fold Pre-flop, Next hand...

 

[lektrikguy]

i think it was luizinhoob who played it wrong by playing KK too weak

He played them strong enough. A reraise preflop and a hefty raise on the flop is good. I happen to like connectors especially suited ones but a raise and reraise preflop I would have folded. It's just one of those times you gambled and it paid off. I wouldn't feel bad because now they figure you for a loose player and it'll be tougher to play you.

 

[StormRaven]

There are a lot of responses - so I didn't read them - got lazy.

Yes you were wrong. The ends don't justify the means. You got lucky and unfortunately, when people make bad calls and get lucky they often use the "lucky" part to justify their call.

Preflop with a raise and re-raise ahead of you and you called out of position. You will lose more money in the long run playing this way.

My 2 cents...

 

[Xavier]

I think u should fold the 98 preflop.
I might call 60 but 120 is just a bit too pricey imo for a hand as weak as that.
A point everyone seems to be missing is that the initial raiser can still reraise preflop after you've called. If beckybaby reraises to say 500 and luizinhoob and janik call what are you going to do then?
Throw your hand away and waste the 120 you already put in or now put in another 350 with a weak hand.
how often are you actually going to hit anything worthwhile on the flop with 98o?