$11 NL HE MTT: What can you say about Hero (UTG) Play

[maronza1]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

11

Game Options

1. Bounty

Currency

$

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[Poker Orifice]

vs. an over pot river bet in that spot I think we'd be making a crying call here to just call this bet... but when we RRAI, what worse hand do we think will call here?
Personally my thoughts on the entire hand:
FOLD PRE! ainec

 

[maronza1]

@300HPGOD i would like to hear your review on this hand

 

[pentazepam]

@300HPGOD i would like to hear your review on this hand

He just gave you one.

 

[maronza1]

He just gave you one.

cant see it

 

[yogo9]

Yes true was a bad call but that player was calling and bluffing all hands , too aggressive, I think i took a bad opportunity that is all , This is poker you play you learn you win you lose , no one is perfect or in that master level.

 

[maronza1]

Yes true was a bad call but that player was calling and bluffing all hands , too aggressive, I think i took a bad opportunity that is all , This is poker you play you learn you win you lose , no one is perfect or in that master level.

but you screwed it bro, you could have played only good hands, such as 45s+, not 94s

 

[300HPGOD]

He just gave you one.

I did not so here it comes

Pre Flop: I would never limp here with any hand in my range. If you were a player that dabbles in limps in their game and mixes them in then you could limp AA and KK but other than that it would be a no and since we shouldnt be open limping pre flop anyway except in some spots (like maybe button limps off of certain stacks which I am not going to get into) I just say dont limp here and damn sure not with 94 suited. If we were hero and made the mistake of open limping here with this hand I would just pitch it to a raise over 3x basically everytime.

Flop: There are sometimes where Kx bets here and Kx checks here depending on what they think of hero. Since we are the hero and we know what we have then I would discount villain having a flush draw based on the sizing villain uses and also the fact that we have two clubs. We as hero should know that our flush draws are discounted in value here since the board is paired. Not only is it paired but its cards that hit a raiser over a limpers range (like K and Q). If this flop was 223 or 449 then its a little different than KKQ. Hero also needs to know they have only a 9 high flush draw so that also de-values it from a normal flush draw. Lets also factor in that if villain has 88-JJ type hands that could raise pre, they arent putting any more money in this hand after the flop were we to call or raise so our implied odds are even less than if we had a 223 board or of course other boards. Given all that and its a half pot bet I would just fold in heros position as played.

Turn: Flush comes in and villain fires less as a sizing down to a little over 1/3rd. Now if I was hero I would really be thinking villain does not have a flush (and at this point let may say for what villain has, their sizing is bad here as they should want hero in the hand to have a flush and pay them off yet they go small when it comes in and leave more than pot size on river). I would also think all those 88-JJ hands are out the window as they would not continue on turn. So that leaves two prime cards, K and Q, that hit villains pre flop range, and we have taken out a lot of their other value hands or perceived value hands. The Qx and Kx in villains range might continue but I think they also check here at times too. As played if you got this far I guess I would call but Im not loving it and I would not be in the hand at this point playing it this way.

River: This is one of the worst cards in the deck, we wouldnt want any ace nor any clubs as another club would deter action/put us behind. The ace gets AK there which is definitely possible for villain to have. Now villain over bets pot and we just called two streets prior on a board where the flush got there on turn. What is hero thinking villain has? If they are doing this with a flush and my initial read was wrong then its a flush that is bigger than 9 high. If its not a flush then its a boat since I would think even AQ would know here they are behind or at least would be behind if hero was to call 3 bets. What hero has here is a bluff catcher and Im not sure how many bluffs you will see here (villain dependent) but there is so much on this board unless villain knows we can fold a flush but thats an interesting line to start taking on the flop which where that line would have to begin. The Kx hands that villain would have that raise pre are probably KJ, KQ, and AK which all got there except KJ which I still think potentially throttles down here on river and buff catches themselves. I believe given the sizing villain uses, deducing their holdings starting from the pre flop raise, and the actual board there just isnt enough here (not even close unless villain always bluffs) to consider calling an overbet on the river with heros hand. Its a fold and its a fairly easy fold imo.

 

[maronza1]

I did not so here it comes

Pre Flop: I would never limp here with any hand in my range. If you were a player that dabbles in limps in their game and mixes them in then you could limp AA and KK but other than that it would be a no and since we shouldnt be open limping pre flop anyway except in some spots (like maybe button limps off of certain stacks which I am not going to get into) I just say dont limp here and damn sure not with 94 suited. If we were hero and made the mistake of open limping here with this hand I would just pitch it to a raise over 3x basically everytime.

Flop: There are sometimes where Kx bets here and Kx checks here depending on what they think of hero. Since we are the hero and we know what we have then I would discount villain having a flush draw based on the sizing villain uses and also the fact that we have two clubs. We as hero should know that our flush draws are discounted in value here since the board is paired. Not only is it paired but its cards that hit a raiser over a limpers range (like K and Q). If this flop was 223 or 449 then its a little different than KKQ. Hero also needs to know they have only a 9 high flush draw so that also de-values it from a normal flush draw. Lets also factor in that if villain has 88-JJ type hands that could raise pre, they arent putting any more money in this hand after the flop were we to call or raise so our implied odds are even less than if we had a 223 board or of course other boards. Given all that and its a half pot bet I would just fold in heros position as played.

Turn: Flush comes in and villain fires less as a sizing down to a little over 1/3rd. Now if I was hero I would really be thinking villain does not have a flush (and at this point let may say for what villain has, their sizing is bad here as they should want hero in the hand to have a flush and pay them off yet they go small when it comes in and leave more than pot size on river). I would also think all those 88-JJ hands are out the window as they would not continue on turn. So that leaves two prime cards, K and Q, that hit villains pre flop range, and we have taken out a lot of their other value hands or perceived value hands. The Qx and Kx in villains range might continue but I think they also check here at times too. As played if you got this far I guess I would call but Im not loving it and I would not be in the hand at this point playing it this way.

River: This is one of the worst cards in the deck, we wouldnt want any ace nor any clubs as another club would deter action/put us behind. The ace gets AK there which is definitely possible for villain to have. Now villain over bets pot and we just called two streets prior on a board where the flush got there on turn. What is hero thinking villain has? If they are doing this with a flush and my initial read was wrong then its a flush that is bigger than 9 high. If its not a flush then its a boat since I would think even AQ would know here they are behind or at least would be behind if hero was to call 3 bets. What hero has here is a bluff catcher and Im not sure how many bluffs you will see here (villain dependent) but there is so much on this board unless villain knows we can fold a flush but thats an interesting line to start taking on the flop which where that line would have to begin. The Kx hands that villain would have that raise pre are probably KJ, KQ, and AK which all got there except KJ which I still think potentially throttles down here on river and buff catches themselves. I believe given the sizing villain uses, deducing their holdings starting from the pre flop raise, and the actual board there just isnt enough here (not even close unless villain always bluffs) to consider calling an overbet on the river with heros hand. Its a fold and its a fairly easy fold imo.

Thanks for the review, and i would say its a perfect review. @yogo9 was doing well, and had a deep stack, and there was no need of becoming greedy for chips with that weak hand preflop. He was deep stacked and in top 40 position. Imagine just getting knocked out because of this kind of play, its really dissapointing. Im still wondering what made him play that hand lol...

@yogo9 First it was your K4 vs K8, secondly 94s vs QQ, thirdly A5s vs 66, you raise pre, you check flop, check turn, river 6, you bluff all in...
Its just that im dissapointed, im not trying to be rude or what bro 😥

 

[Poker Orifice]

but you screwed it bro, you could have played only good hands, such as 45s+, not 94s

When I first responded to this post it was because I thought you wanted an opinion on a hand YOU played (you = HERO)
But now reading through the thread it seems you wanted comments directed at a member who played the hand poorly.
Had I known this, I wouldn't have responded

Sorry @yogo9

 

[maronza1]

When I first responded to this post it was because I thought you wanted an opinion on a hand YOU played (you = HERO)
But now reading through the thread it seems you wanted comments directed at a member who played the hand poorly.
Had I known this, I wouldn't have responded

Sorry @yogo9

He is my friend, i asked him whether i should post this hand here so that you can give review. Whether a hand was played by me or someone, just give an honest review, not based on who played a hand.

 

[Funtast]

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Limp/call 94s utg -> Fish
Jam over Overbet on River with Babyflush on AKKQ board -> Aggro mega full maniac terrible FISH.
End of story.

 

[maronza1]

Limp/call 94s utg -> Fish
Jam over Overbet on River with Babyflush on AKKQ board -> Aggro mega full maniac terrible FISH.
End of story.

Lol.. the story is too short

 

[yogo9]

When I first responded to this post it was because I thought you wanted an opinion on a hand YOU played (you = HERO)
But now reading through the thread it seems you wanted comments directed at a member who played the hand poorly.
Had I known this, I wouldn't have responded

Sorry @yogo9

Hello @Poker Orifice , why sorry??? i think there is nothing to be sorry for ,(HERO=ME or @maronza1) its the same , I didn't have time to post the hand,so he asked me if he could post my hand i said yes plz, The main and important point here is to see how CC members especially old poker players with experience like you think about this hand , and really was a good helping comment with true facts, thanks for passing by.

 

[yogo9]

Limp/call 94s utg -> Fish
Jam over Overbet on River with Babyflush on AKKQ board -> Aggro mega full maniac terrible FISH.
End of story.

We did ask opinion about this hand not throwing child words , So next time give your opinion in a good and right way if no just keep your bad and negative energy for your self.
by the way the aggro mega full maniac terrible fish loool show you his last wining of this month , and this is my final tables only , i am not talking about x15-x50 wins this is nothing.

End of story @Funtast.

 

[Funtast]

We did ask opinion about this hand not throwing child words , So next time give your opinion in a good and right way if no just keep your bad and negative energy for your self.
by the way the aggro mega full maniac terrible fish loool show you his last wining of this month , and this is my final tables only , i am not talking about x15-x50 wins this is nothing.

End of story @Funtast.

Yogo9 that neither was loaded with bad energy nor did I want to get personal. It's probably you who takes it personal because you sucked big time in that hand?
And yeah yogo9 you played like a fish. People who play like fishes are usually... yes exacly... fishes. So forgive me that I called you a fish. I bet you are one of the geniuses who play 49s from utg +EV. Everything hero did in that hand was fishy. From start to finish. Flop decisionmaking HORRIBLE and river jam even WORSE.
I like how you diva like flex with some winnings btw. Now I see you even more as a fish because no good player would feel the need to do so.
And tbh. your posts have always made me cringe because of the overall fishyness you are screaming out loud. Now it's settled in stone: yogo9 is a fish.
Bye

 

[yogo9]

Yogo9 that neither was loaded with bad energy nor did I want to get personal. It's probably you who takes it personal because you sucked big time in that hand?
And yeah yogo9 you played like a fish. People who play like fishes are usually... yes exacly... fishes. So forgive me that I called you a fish. I bet you are one of the geniuses who play 49s from utg +EV. Everything hero did in that hand was fishy. From start to finish. Flop decisionmaking HORRIBLE and river jam even WORSE.
I like how you diva like flex with some winnings btw. Now I see you even more as a fish because no good player would feel the need to do so.
And tbh. your posts have always made me cringe because of the overall fishyness you are screaming out loud. Now it's settled in stone: yogo9 is a fish.
Bye

I didn't make it personally in any way i just told you to be polite when you comment to some one , and just like i told you say good or keep your bad energies for your self , yeep i am a biiig fish and you the master pro lol , your opinion doesn't matter to me in anyway i have anti-bodies to guys like you after working for so many, it seems you the one screaming , we meet in the tables lol dont worry. bye.
End of story @Funtast.

 

[Funtast]

I didn't make it personally in any way i just told you to be polite when you comment to some one , and just like i told you say good or keep your bad energies for your self , yeep i am a biiig fish and you the master pro lol , your opinion doesn't matter to me in anyway i have anti-bodies to guys like you after working for so many, it seems you the one screaming , we meet in the tables lol dont worry. bye.
End of story @Funtast.

You are not in a position to tell me what I have to do or to say. Ignored

 

[maronza1]

@yogo9 My friend, just accept the criticism that cc members are throwing at you just the same way you would for the praises. The way forward is to never repeat the same mistake, and be determined to improve on your game.

@Funtast thank you for the critisism you throwed at yogo, i hope he accepts it so that he stops playing fishy hands, hoping that he will soon be a shark. Becareful though, once he becomes a shark at the tables, its better not to be at the same table with him, because he will knock you out lol..

 

[Funtast]

@yogo9 My friend, just accept the criticism that cc members are throwing at you just the same way you would for the praises. The way forward is to never repeat the same mistake, and be determined to improve on your game.

@Funtast thank you for the critisism you throwed at yogo, i hope he accepts it so that he stops playing fishy hands, hoping that he will soon be a shark. Becareful though, once he becomes a shark at the tables, its better not to be at the same table with him, because he will knock you out lol..

Alright. Sounds fair.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Limping UTG is not a good strategy, and the hand is not good enough to raise. As played I guess, we have to call the relatively small raise. If we are going to limp-fold, then limping is even worse.

Flop
With a flushdraw we are either calling or raising, and given the paired board i prefer to just call, even though we dont have any showdown value. But we have a bad draw, and stacks are deep, so we dont want to build a huge pot. And if we raise and get 3-bet, we will probably need to fold.

Turn
We made the flush, but we dont exactly have the nuts, so totally on board with just calling. Obviously folding is not an option now.

River
Now we face an overbet, and unless Villain is a maniac, I find it very unlikely, that he is doing this for value with a hand worse than a low flush. A rivered straight or trips might bet again, but it would likely be something more like half pot and not an overbet. Even a better flush would likely take a smaller sizing on a paired board. So I think, Villain is pretty much polarized to a boat or a bluff, and this means, our choise is between calling and folding, while raising achieves nothing.

And to be honest I dont even love calling here. His most likely bluff on the turn would be the nut flushdraw, and that hand rivered top pair, so its likely not bluffing again. Which makes it very difficult to even find logical bluffs. On the other hand his range contain a ton of logical boats, and we are getting a bad price facing an overbet. So if I am on my A-game and dont have a special read on the Villain, I actually fold here.

If he had bet something more normal like 2/3 or 3/4 pot, then I think, he could potentially have a worse hand for value, and then I would make a quick call. But I would still not raise, because I dont think, worse hands bet the river for value AND then call a raise. Or at least not enough of the time, given that now he will also be betting better flushes, which we also lose to.

 

[yogo9]

Preflop
Limping UTG is not a good strategy, and the hand is not good enough to raise. As played I guess, we have to call the relatively small raise. If we are going to limp-fold, then limping is even worse.

Flop
With a flushdraw we are either calling or raising, and given the paired board i prefer to just call, even though we dont have any showdown value. But we have a bad draw, and stacks are deep, so we dont want to build a huge pot. And if we raise and get 3-bet, we will probably need to fold.

Turn
We made the flush, but we dont exactly have the nuts, so totally on board with just calling. Obviously folding is not an option now.

River
Now we face an overbet, and unless Villain is a maniac, I find it very unlikely, that he is doing this for value with a hand worse than a low flush. A rivered straight or trips might bet again, but it would likely be something more like half pot and not an overbet. Even a better flush would likely take a smaller sizing on a paired board. So I think, Villain is pretty much polarized to a boat or a bluff, and this means, our choise is between calling and folding, while raising achieves nothing.

And to be honest I dont even love calling here. His most likely bluff on the turn would be the nut flushdraw, and that hand rivered top pair, so its likely not bluffing again. Which makes it very difficult to even find logical bluffs. On the other hand his range contain a ton of logical boats, and we are getting a bad price facing an overbet. So if I am on my A-game and dont have a special read on the Villain, I actually fold here.

If he had bet something more normal like 2/3 or 3/4 pot, then I think, he could potentially have a worse hand for value, and then I would make a quick call. But I would still not raise, because I dont think, worse hands bet the river for value AND then call a raise. Or at least not enough of the time, given that now he will also be betting better flushes, which we also lose to.

I totally agree with you, This Villain was too aggressive and playing all hands and bet big, I chose the wrong hand and time to go with him, Thanks man for your reply.

 

[kunkgreen]

May God forgive these bad guys!

 

[yogo9]

May God forgive these bad guys!

lol, amen

 

[dallam]

No need to play this hand at all.

We ain't wanna limp as well on such a deep stacked table like this from UTG.

On River your hand is only a bluffcatcher, 3-bet all-in is insane.