$11 NL HE MTT: Did I play this wrong?

[Andyreas]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

11

Currency

$

Hey forum,

again on mobile, so no convertable HH again.

This is a hand from an $11 MTT, late reg has closed about 10 mins ago. 34 players left, 23 places paid.

I'm ranging at 23th stack wise and have 25 BBs left when the hand starts.

I'm in BB, UTG (big stack) min-raises, I defend with 9d5d.

Flop comes 9c9sKc.

I check, UTG bets 25% of pot. I raise to 3.6x his bet. He calls.

Turn comes Qc. Not a card which I like since a flush or straight got there. So I decide to check. He checks back.

River comes Qd.

Questions:

• Was my check-raise on flop too small?
• How would you play turn/river?

Spoiler: My river action and result

I bet half pot since I beat his flushes and straights now. He check-raise jams on me.
Do I need to fold here?

I called since the only hand I can see him having a Q is KQ which is only 6 combos?

He shows QsJs. I find his call on flop pretty weird. Is that just me?

Should I have given him credit for the Q and fold river?

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Given that the bubble is getting close, I dont think, its mandatory to defend in this situation. Being out of position with a hand like this against a player, who can bust you, will generally put you in a lot of tough spots. Not saying that defending is a mistake, but for me I would probably just fold and look for better spots to pick up chips.

Flop
Great flop obviously, and when he bet so small, I do agree with check-raising. Sizing could be a bit larger though.

Turn
Obviously its not great, that there is now 3 to a flush. I would not worry about JT though. I dont think, JTo open from UTG, and I dont think, JTs call a check-raise on the flop with just a gutshot. So the only JT, which he can realistically have, is JT of spades. And of course JT of clubs, which is now a straight flush. He could also have QQ though, which is now a boat. My decision here really depends on, how much stack is left. If its less than a pot sized bet, I would just jam and hope for the best. If you are behind to a flush or straight, you are not dead, because you have ten outs to a boat. And you kind of want to charge hands with a single club. But if there was more stack behind, I can see playing for some pot control.

River
Now the board is dubble paired, so you no longer lose to a straight or flush, but you lose to QX. I think, he can have some QX with KQ being the most obvious, and maybe some AQ also peel on the flop. As with JT, I think, the naked QJ and QT gutshots mostly fold on the flop. And that the offsuit combos are not opened UTG. So I do think, there is a decent chance, you have the best hand. I also dont see him having many hands, that completely lack showdown value. So I dont think, checking induce a lot of bluffs. And for that reason I would make a relatively modest block bet trying to get called by hands like AA or KX. And against an unknown opponent then probably mostly fold, if he jam on you.

Spoiler
Ok so he had QJ of spades. That makes sense, because he had the BDFD on the flop to go along with his gutshot. And yeah. As I said already, I think, you can bet-fold the river with the main rationale being, that its difficult to find natural bluffs in his range.

 

[eetenor]

Hey forum,

again on mobile, so no convertable HH again.

This is a hand from an $11 MTT, late reg has closed about 10 mins ago. 34 players left, 23 places paid.

I'm ranging at 23th stack wise and have 25 BBs left when the hand starts.

I'm in BB, UTG (big stack) min-raises, I defend with 9d5d.

Flop comes 9c9sKc.

I check, UTG bets 25% of pot. I raise to 3.6x his bet. He calls.

Turn comes Qc. Not a card which I like since a flush or straight got there. So I decide to check. He checks back.

River comes Qd.

Questions:

• Was my check-raise on flop too small?
• How would you play turn/river?

Spoiler: My river action and result

I bet half pot since I beat his flushes and straights now. He check-raise jams on me.
Do I need to fold here?

I called since the only hand I can see him having a Q is KQ which is only 6 combos?

He shows QsJs. I find his call on flop pretty weird. Is that just me?

Should I have given him credit for the Q and fold river?

View attachment 339678

So the focus here is to look at pot sizes and stack sizes ie SPR- Assuming antes preflop the pot is 5.5 preflop? V bets 1.4 flop? we raise to 5.04 V calls so pot is 15.58 we have 17.96 in stack?

So looking at the SPR we might consider changing our bet sizing on flop to make our turn decisions simpler- We can either make the raise smaller so that we preserve our stack if we have to shutdown on turn like we did or we can make it larger to narrow the V's range-- if we can exploit fold vs the V type or this V type will check down non-nut flushes on this type of turn.

As played our study point is --- what bluffs do we have when we bet half pot on river? Taking the time to think about that range is important and then ask what range is the V thin value raising if they think we are bluffing and betting for value without the nuts?
Would we bet half pot with the nuts? Targeting what range? If not why would we bluff that sizing?
Do they expect us to fold? Do they expect many players in your player pool to bet fold there based on SPR?

 

[MazzErati]

If I were to play this hand, I would not flop check-raise, but bet 75%, as the player - eetenor already said above, to simplify his decision on the turn. A lot can be written here, but it looks like an ordinary coolie, which unfortunately is handed to us every day, it gives you a hand that you cannot discard and the opponent has a higher combination.

 

[fundiver199]

If eetenors pot size calculations are correct, then I prefer to check the river with your hand. The issue is, that with just over a pot sized bet left, you cant really pick any size, which works well. If you jam, its an overbet, and you will likely only get called, when you are losing or occationally chopping. If you bet small like 25% pot, you are not getting that much value, and it looks weak. So if you get jammed on, you dont know, if you induced it. And finally if you bet something like half pot, as you did, you are getting fantastic pot odds to call his jam, but you are also beat. Or as Collin Moshman said in one of the videos from the 30-day course "you are annoyed but committed". So because of this stack size issue I prefer to check-call the river. In that way he can (at least in theory) have some bluffs, or he can be betting another 9 for thin value.

 

[almir nicolau]

In my point of view your ck/rease is good for the effective stack, the turn I think it's good to make a strong size as they are in utg and the connected bord we managed to extract and generate the pot for a possible shove river, I would go with that line of ck/ rease flop - bet strong turn and shovaria river.

 

[almir nicolau]

Regarding the defense of big with 25bb, mini rease . call green!

 

[puzzlefish]

Personally I really dislike flopped trips, and especially when they develop into a lower full house. There just seem to be a lot of reverse implied odds scenarios that frequently get realized with this kind of hand.

When you are playing against UTG, it's even worse because their range is usually limited to hands that will likely dominate you on this kind of board. They will hit the bigger full house. They will hit the flushes and straights.

This is why when this happens I will typically bet really small and try to get to the showdown as cheaply as possible, and I am okay with sometimes being bluffed off of the trips. I somehow doubt it would happen very often against UTG. However, if I was playing against BTN and SB I would probably be more likely to see showdown.