$11 MTT, AQs with huge draw

[SeanyJ]

pokerstars Game #15245391528: Tournament #77010169, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2008/02/12 - 19:47:02 (ET)
Table '77010169 318' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: SeanyJ24 (2940 in chips)
Seat 2: grandmarc (4095 in chips)
Seat 3: davis101 (6800 in chips)
Seat 4: tennis300 (3245 in chips)
Seat 5: Dustin Mele (2870 in chips)
Seat 6: bgw01 (1850 in chips)
Seat 7: diamond4lil (5830 in chips)
Seat 8: chipmover88 (3030 in chips)
Seat 9: Tock9710 (3550 in chips)
SeanyJ24: posts small blind 50
grandmarc: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SeanyJ24 [Qs As]
davis101: calls 100
tennis300: folds
Dustin Mele: folds
bgw01: calls 100
diamond4lil: folds
chipmover88: folds
Tock9710: folds
SeanyJ24: raises 300 to 400
grandmarc: folds
davis101: calls 300
bgw01: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [9c Js Ts]
SeanyJ24: bets 500
davis101: calls 500
bgw01: raises 950 to 1450 and is all-in
SeanyJ24: ...?

Ok well bgw01 is 66.7/8/.22 over only 25 hands
davis101 is 65.2/0/1.17 over 23 hands

I've reeled me in a couple of fishies here, what's a good line to take?

Oh and I have been really tight so far because I've been really card dead 13/8.7/inf but I doubt these guys have taken notice of that

 

[c9h13no3]

Well this decision is easy since we only have two choices. Shove or call.

I think this is a pretty clear shove. We've already gotten 500 chips out of the big stack, and we're committing ourselves to this pot by calling. Sure, we'd like for the big stack to come along. But I think anyone who would call 1500 chips will probably call the rest of your stack as well. And we don't want a brick to hit on the turn & have to commit the rest of our stack when we're no longer a favorite.

/me votes for shove & do an out bringing dance

 

[NuRelic]

I agreed with c9h13no3 that you need to shove it here, but I think the reason is to try and get the Big Stack out. Davis101 tries to limp in from UTG and still calls after your PFR even though that's going to put him in a squeeze position.

Then he follows that up by calling your $500 bet on the Flop with both a FD and SD looming. At this point it looks like he either caught a small part of the Flop or he's holding some type of drawing hand and willing to cold call your Flop Bet because he Chip-Drunk (or at least Chip-Buzzed). Either way he doesn't seem too proud of his hand and I'd be willing to guess that if you shove, there's at least a decent chance that your remaining $2040 might be enough to sober him up get him out of the hand.

If he is on a draw, you can represent a strong hand and put the odds against him from trying to draw out on you.

If he's on the Flush Draw (like you), he'll think he's got 9 out and with 2 cards to come he's got a 36%- chance of hitting. If he's on the Straight Draw, he won't know whether he's got 8 or 6 outs but either way his odds are at 32%-.

If you shove, your forcing him to decide if he wants to pay 90% pot odds to draw out with hand odds under 40%.

If he's holding something like Jx, Tx, 9x or a small PP; he's got to wonder whether your holding a bigger pair, better hand, a Set or a monster draw (like you do).

The point here is that either way, he's in a poor spot to be calling if you shove.

 

[c9h13no3]

You want the big stack in. You want draws to call because our draw is bigger. If we hit our outs, we win, if we don't, we're so crippled that it will be a tough fight back in it. If another player puts his money in, that's great, since our outs are still likely to be clean.

I shove because I think cold calling shows more strength. Do you really think the big stack would shove over top of us if we just call?

 

[ChuckTs]

This is a pretty clear shove to me; you're in pretty good shape even if the big stack looks you up and as mentioned we don't want to call and find ourselves on a missed turn facing another bet.

As for c9 and Nu's argument, we don't actually mind a call from the big stack as we're really in pretty good shape unless he's got a monster. Punch some hands into pokerstove and you'll see we're at worst like 60/40 dog.

 

[blankoblanco]

i fistpump shove for aforementioned reasoning, and then brick everything on running red deuces or something

 

[SubT33]

12 outs to a monster hand? You're definitely getting the right odds. Shove now, iron out the details later.

 

[heatfan03]

major pot odds!!! dude did u win it. I hope so this would give u a huge stack in this tourney early.

 

[Cheetah]

What is this crap? You either check-call to draw (if you can call profitably within your stack), or shove it all-in to maximize FE.

Betting in-between makes no sense!

 

[robwhufc]

Not a clear shove for me. Once you've made the decision that you're not folding, the ONLY question is how to get the extra 1,090 chips from the big stack. There is no point trying to get him to fold - if you hit your draw you are likely to win, if you don't you will likely lose to shortstack ((though maybe ace high is good?). Maybe he wont call a raise and a reraise for 2,540 chips (fair chunk of his stack), but he'll have to call another 950 chips here? Post turn, his pot odds are much more inviting to grudgingly call the last 1,500 or so when you push all in.

 

[c9h13no3]

his pot odds are much more inviting to grudgingly call the last 1,500 or so when you push all in.

Or he'll fold when a spade, Q, K, or 8 comes.

 

[Tigersmith]

Ship it and GL

 

[SeanyJ]

SeanyJ24: raises 1090 to 2540 and is all-in
davis101: calls 2040
*** TURN *** [9c Js Ts] [Ah]
*** RIVER *** [9c Js Ts Ah] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SeanyJ24: shows [Qs As] (a flush, Ace high)
davis101: shows [Kc 8c] (a pair of Nines)
SeanyJ24 collected 2180 from side pot
bgw01: shows [Tc Ad] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
bgw01 said, "lol"
SeanyJ24 collected 5650 from main pot
davis101 said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7830 Main pot 5650. Side pot 2180. | Rake 0
Board [9c Js Ts Ah 9s]
Seat 1: SeanyJ24 (small blind) showed [Qs As] and won (7830) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: grandmarc (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: davis101 showed [Kc 8c] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 4: tennis300 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Dustin Mele folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: bgw01 showed [Tc Ad] and lost with two pair, Aces and Tens
Seat 7: diamond4lil folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: chipmover88 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Tock9710 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

The only reason I posted this was because some guy at the table decided I was an idiot for putting all of my chips in on this hand. He wasn't involved so I don't know what his problem was I thought it was a pretty standard shove but I just wanted to see what you all said.