$109 NL HE MTT: I think this is just a cooler but still curious about your thoughts!

[Andyreas]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

109

Currency

$

Hi forum,

another hand from today's $109-MTT where I came in via a satellite.

The blinds just increased to 2nd level and everyone is still pretty deep >150 BBs.

Basically no reads about the opponents yet and I did not look up anyone so far.

Hero (185 BBs) gets JdJs on BN.

Folds to HJ, who raises to 2 BBs. CO 3-bets to 6.3 BBs. (Hint: Both me, HJ and CO have been in the last two hands and CO won by betting and taking it down before showdown). Hero 4-bets to 17.7 BBs. HJ folds, CO calls.

Flop (39.8 BBs): QcJc4s
Villian checks to me, I decide to bet half pot. He check-raises to 2x my bet. Hero?

Spoiler: My thoughts

He called my 4-bet and now check-raised me which screams a strong hand. I think we can exclude 44 from his hands. While he could also do it with AQ, (KQ less likely) or potentially AcKc, most likely hands are QJ (which I mostly block), KK or QQ, imo. I think he'd have 5-bet AA.
So out of the two most likely hands, I am nearly drawn dead to one and far ahead of the other. Tricky!

Question: My SPR is slightly over 4. Does that go in line with stacking off here with middle set? Because I did and he called.

Turn: As
River: 8c

Spoiler: Villians hand

QhQd

 

[Highfish]

Just a cooler. I also would never fold here.

 

[Goggelheimer]

Set over set is rare condition.
I would also not fold.
The call to your 4 bet implies a strong hand.
I personally would do that with JJ+ AKo and AKs.
Ranges are in a normal play in this spot very polarized.

 

[waisichy]

Nobody is backing out of that hand. Unlucky for you but good work making it through to the tournament.

 

[Ace of Spad3s]

Cooler. I would not have folded there, no way with middle set.. that check raise is all you can hope for while flopping a set JJJ. Just unfortunate he doesn't have AQ or something.

 

[Marshmalo1994]

I'd play slightly different preflop, but it would had ended the same way.
I'd pay almost every time with a set, even considering the odds of getting a full house.

 

[dallam]

Preflop is fine I believe. Postflop could go different.
Your sizing is still fine, although opponent shows an agression out-of-position with a small re-raise which could be called by your AA or KK as well, even AKs with a runner flush. Your range is cutted, so as his by the time, so to not 4-bet this could cause some damage control, cause he clearly has something to open the Turn as well. But it's just a mind-game idea on my side having a 109$ game 150bbs deep.
A of spades is the best Turn card you could hit, I'm really not sure if opp wants to open this on Turn or how is he gonna absolve it.

Anyway, it's very unlucky to put under the pressure with a really good made combination, when there's only 1 thing which beating us, but we are lack of information to making a perfect read. Better luck next time!

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
You could also just cold call the 3-bet, but given, that its a late position configuration, I have no problem with your 4-bet.

Flop
Half pot is usually not the preferred size in a 4-bet pot, but betting itself is of course totally fine. When he min-clicks, it does look very strong, and QQ comes to mind as the most logical hand, that might do this for value. But you cant fold the second nuts to a small raise, so the only question is, if you jam now or just call and look to play some later streets. And I do lean towards just calling. If he is somehow bluffing, it allow him to continue doing so on the later streets. But jamming certainly beats folding.

Results
As others have said, this is just a cooler. Even with 150+BB there is no way, you can fold second set putting your opponent only on top set.

 

[Andyreas]

Thank you all for your feedback!

Just some detailed question to some hints:

A of spades is the best Turn card you could hit, I'm really not sure if opp wants to open this on Turn or how is he gonna absolve it.

So let's assume I'd have called his check-raise on flop. How would you play the turn assuming he bet/not bet? 🤔

Half pot is usually not the preferred size in a 4-bet pot

I wasn't aware. Would we go smaller since pot is so large or go larger to take it down right now?

And I do lean towards just calling. If he is somehow bluffing, it allow him to continue doing so on the later streets. But jamming certainly beats folding.

Thank you for this idea! So basically similar to the other hand: we're still calling turn and river but try to keep some additional bluffs in his range in theory?

 

[fundiver199]

I wasn't aware. Would we go smaller since pot is so large or go larger to take it down right now?

As I understand it, we are supposed to bet small and frequently on almost any board in a 4-bet pot. Optimal sizing could be a bit larger, when you are 150BB+ deep, but most likely not as large as half pot.

Thank you for this idea! So basically similar to the other hand: we're still calling turn and river but try to keep some additional bluffs in his range in theory?

Yes exactly. If he is somehow bluffing, we hand him the rope to hang himself, and we have an uncapped calling range. If we have AA or KK, we definitely just want to call here, and by also calling with sets we stay balanced. There is no compelling reason to make this a 1-street hand, so the balanced aproach is to not have any range at all for 3-betting the flop, especially when we are in position. If he check the turn, we can always start betting again.

 

[dallam]

Thank you all for your feedback!

Just some detailed question to some hints:


So let's assume I'd have called his check-raise on flop. How would you play the turn assuming he bet/not bet? 🤔

I suppose your pre 4-bet range could look like: AA-JJ, sutied A hands, KQs maybe some overplayed QJs or J10s.

Each of these hands are able to commit a raise and a check-raise call on the flop.
So that's why I would not to 4-bet the flop just seeing only this hand. The pot is already huge, while you're maybe only seeking to hit your connectors, maybe having a made hand - opp is already showed way to much determination and pot building. So as he needs to be acting out of positions, you could still have some air to find a way to hit your outs or giving this person a chance to run his hand into a bluff.

- A of spades pretty much support you, if he ever check it down, you should be going with it and reply with a check as well. You would not building this even more with AKs or KK, suited Aces even with AQs(?) so once again your bluffs and weaker ones are still in.

- If he bets, by this line it's more likely QQ although without notes AK AQ AJs could be seen here as well, maybe a bluff with KK or KQs. We simply are having a great odds still not to run into the Ladies, while Ace itself is not a gamechanger so at this point you are only behind QQ.
3-bet allin what I could advice in this case, to going for max value (cause we never really be able to realise our equity on river once he is raising this street).

 

[eetenor]

Hi forum,

another hand from today's $109-MTT where I came in via a satellite.

The blinds just increased to 2nd level and everyone is still pretty deep >150 BBs.

Basically no reads about the opponents yet and I did not look up anyone so far.

Hero (185 BBs) gets JdJs on BN.

Folds to HJ, who raises to 2 BBs. CO 3-bets to 6.3 BBs. (Hint: Both me, HJ and CO have been in the last two hands and CO won by betting and taking it down before showdown). Hero 4-bets to 17.7 BBs. HJ folds, CO calls.

Flop (39.8 BBs): QcJc4s
Villian checks to me, I decide to bet half pot. He check-raises to 2x my bet. Hero?

Spoiler: My thoughts

He called my 4-bet and now check-raised me which screams a strong hand. I think we can exclude 44 from his hands. While he could also do it with AQ, (KQ less likely) or potentially AcKc, most likely hands are QJ (which I mostly block), KK or QQ, imo. I think he'd have 5-bet AA.
So out of the two most likely hands, I am nearly drawn dead to one and far ahead of the other. Tricky!

Question: My SPR is slightly over 4. Does that go in line with stacking off here with middle set? Because I did and he called.

Turn: As
River: 8c

Spoiler: Villians hand

QhQd

Use GTO wizard to look at preflop ranges the free version only up to 100bb but it will give you a good idea of range shape in a spot like this
You get one free hand per day so you could review this hand post flop

Most V do not understand condensed balanced OOP ranges in 4 bet pots deep stacked which should lead us to thinking min XRs are nutty
The V does not flat AA KK this deep they 5 bet it small- AA- or shove KK most often and cover their 5 bets with bluff frequencies they might have 44 GTO does not but it is less likely to be min XR - QQ is the hand they flat most often GTO so it is the hand we can expect to play like this most often with a flat pre by a V that is not GTO centric postflop

 

[Canaldo Kao]

You and your opponent played very well, there's no way out of this hand. Thanks for sharing it with us!

 

[hilary antonik filho]

Now tell us how the final result was

 

[eetenor]

Use GTO wizard to look at preflop ranges the free version only up to 100bb but it will give you a good idea of range shape in a spot like this
You get one free hand per day so you could review this hand post flop

Most V do not understand condensed balanced OOP ranges in 4 bet pots deep stacked which should lead us to thinking min XRs are nutty
The V does not flat AA KK this deep they 5 bet it small- AA- or shove KK most often and cover their 5 bets with bluff frequencies they might have 44 GTO does not but it is less likely to be min XR - QQ is the hand they flat most often GTO so it is the hand we can expect to play like this most often with a flat pre by a V that is not GTO centric postflop

@Andyreas Would enjoy it if you shared the free post flop hand breakdown from GTO Wizard in this thread if you can

 

[Andyreas]

Now tell us how the final result was

It's in the spoiler in the first post. You have to click on the button. He had QQ indeed.

@Andyreas Would enjoy it if you shared the free post flop hand breakdown from GTO Wizard in this thread if you can

I will try to check it out later and share, if I manage. ☺️

 

[ADRI7HO]

If he doubles the bet, either the villian is a very weak player, or he has one of the strongest hands on the flop, which could be another set, Q or 4, or a wild flush-line combo draw.
On the flop, I think I would have definitely re-raised Villian's 2x re-raise ...
... unfortunately, as I can see, the strongest hand on the flop was the QQ pair, but this 2x re-raise was a very strange game.
Unlucky hand.