$$108 NL HE MTT: $$108 NL HE MTT:

[IADaveMark]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

$108

Game Options

1. Deep Stacked

Currency

$

Let's do something different... you tell me why I did what I did (and if it was right).

This is a hand from a $108 PKO I played yesterday. It was early on (we started with 100k chips but blinds started at 500/1000) and I only had 13 hands of history on V. So given the info up to the flop when V shoved on me, what was my thought process? Why did I call? Do you agree? What did the V have and what were my odds? Discuss...

Yatahay Network - 600/1200 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 68,817
BTN: 100,000
SB: 124,512
Hero (BB): 102,733
UTG: 79,789
UTG+1: 237,497
MP: 144,450

7 players post ante of 180, SB posts SB 600, Hero posts BB 1,200

Pre Flop: (pot: 3,060) Hero has


fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 2,400, fold, SB calls 1,800, Hero raises to 8,745, CO calls 6,345, fold

Flop: (21,150, 2 players)

Hero bets 15,863, CO raises to 59,892 and is all-in, Hero calls 44,029

Spoiler: Showdown

Turn: (140,934, 2 players)


River: (140,934, 2 players)


CO shows
(Two Pair, Sevens and Fours)
(Pre 15%, Flop 37%, Turn 20%)
Hero shows
(Two Pair, Kings and Sevens)
(Pre 85%, Flop 63%, Turn 80%)
Hero wins 140,934

 

[fundiver199]

The SPR was only around 3, and in a 3-bet pot he should not have that many hands, that connected with the board. Maybe he can have 65s and 77, but all other hands, that beat you, should either not have been opened or folded to your 3-bet. AA could be in his range, but would most likely have been 4-bet. What he can have a lot though is 88-QQ and also some flushdraws with overs. So KK should be far ahead of his stack-off range, and presumably this is why, you called?

 

[eetenor]

Let's do something different... you tell me why I did what I did (and if it was right).

This is a hand from a $108 PKO I played yesterday. It was early on (we started with 100k chips but blinds started at 500/1000) and I only had 13 hands of history on V. So given the info up to the flop when V shoved on me, what was my thought process? Why did I call? Do you agree? What did the V have and what were my odds? Discuss...

Yatahay Network - 600/1200 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 68,817
BTN: 100,000
SB: 124,512
Hero (BB): 102,733
UTG: 79,789
UTG+1: 237,497
MP: 144,450

7 players post ante of 180, SB posts SB 600, Hero posts BB 1,200

Pre Flop: (pot: 3,060) Hero has


fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 2,400, fold, SB calls 1,800, Hero raises to 8,745, CO calls 6,345, fold

Flop: (21,150, 2 players)

Hero bets 15,863, CO raises to 59,892 and is all-in, Hero calls 44,029

Spoiler: Showdown

Turn: (140,934, 2 players)


River: (140,934, 2 players)


CO shows
(Two Pair, Sevens and Fours)
(Pre 15%, Flop 37%, Turn 20%)
Hero shows
(Two Pair, Kings and Sevens)
(Pre 85%, Flop 63%, Turn 80%)
Hero wins 140,934

I do not why you would flop bet this sizing----I assume you called because you thought the majority of hands that shoved were draws not sets or straights

 

[Andyreas]

I'd also put him on a range of overpairs. AA can be excluded since he'd have 4-bet you, as fundiver said. If it was lower stakes, I also would have added suited Broadway's of diamond to his range but I doubt people play like this on such high stakes.

I like your bet or 3/4 after the flop and assume you wanted to take the pot down before a potential flush materializes. And it's unlikely that you're behind with this flop.

Usually one might bet around 1/3-1/2 of the pot as a value bet.

 

[IADaveMark]

(BTW, I'm going to wait a bit to see if anyone else responds before I do so... although the regs are already here. )
(Also, I assume you guys are clicking the Spoiler button afterwards to see how it ran out.)

 

[300HPGOD]

I believe your thought process is something like this: Villain thinks that I have something close to the hand I have (3 betting pre also puts us more in the range area of what we have) with no diamonds since I bet so large (I dont agree with your sizing as already mentioned above) and villain thinks its for protection. Therefore villain would believe that they dont have to raise their sets here because if they dont put me on diamonds then they have no worry and they would just let me bet my overpair off into their set. With that said then they must only be jamming with a draw or a pair and a draw. Flush draws are the most likely and your thinking would be for that sizing you made it, they are not just going to call to see one street and then have to face another bet on the turn so they would just put it in. Worst draw for us we could see would be some Ax of diamonds where we are still 55% ish so your thinking is I should make the call fairly confident they do not have a set.

 

[IADaveMark]

Ok... I'll jump in now that 300 has bounced through.

Pre is pretty straightforward. V opens for 2x (smallish?), SB called the extra 1.5. Even without SB in there, this is an obvious 3bet. Normally over a 2bb, I would go up to 5-6bb. I went a little higher than that because of the extra money from the SB but I wasn't as concerned about that since he was OOP and was likely less enamored with his hand and was more likely calling just because he was priced in a bit. Obviously, took note of the fact that V called that which should put him on a stronger hand. As was mentioned above, AA would likely have 4-bet, so candidates are JJ-KK, AK, AQ, maybe KQo, and maybe JTs+. Again, though, pre-flop the only thing I'm worried about is AA and that is already less likely because of no 4-bet. (BTW, the above puts me a 77% pre. 72% if you include the AA.)

The flop is pretty good since it completely misses that entire range above—except for diamonds. There are a some combos that could give him the flush draw... JdTd+. 2 pairs and straights are likely not an issue because, while he may open with low suited connectors, he very likely isn't calling a 3-bet that size with, for example, 34s, 56s, etc. Same can be said for sets. I'm not putting him on 77, 44, or 33 after the 3-bet pre.

So I'm worried about a flush draw or the off chance that he hits a set on the turn while holding JJ, QQ, etc.

I bet 3/4 pot which gives him about 2.33. i.e. he needs 43% equity to hit.

Given the range above, he only has about 17%. If you simply do the out count without taking into account the range above:

• Diamond draw only = 9 outs = 20%
• Diamond draw with A = 12 outs = 25%
• QQ or JJ =8-10% (depending on diamond)

That bet isn't giving him the pot odds to call.

Given his shove, though, we now have to count 2 streets instead of just 1 to decide if we are calling. That turns it around so that I need 45%.

• Diamond draw only = 9 outs = 37%
• Diamond draw with A = 12 outs = 49%
• QQ or JJ =10-15% (depending on diamond)

That doesn't look quite as sexy but I'm still pretty much solid on the equity front. That and he doesn't have me covered. Given his SPR, he was pretty much pot committed with a simple call of my flop bet so he's just hoping he hits.

Going back to some of the comments:

I like your bet or 3/4 after the flop and assume you wanted to take the pot down before a potential flush materializes.

I dont agree with your sizing as already mentioned above

As described above, I was thinking like Andyreas said: take it down now and avoid the possible straight and flush draws. That pricing should have done it from a pot odds standpoint but he not only called, he shoved FWIW.

If I bet 1/4-1/2 pot, he has more than enough pot odds to peel and hope for his flush draw.

 

[300HPGOD]

If I bet 1/4-1/2 pot, he has more than enough pot odds to peel and hope for his flush draw.

Well that would be if you didnt bet the turn and if there is no diamond on the turn then you would be betting so when they call the flop they are calling to only see one card and not two cards. Giving them any price where they are getting less than 4 to 1 (not counting implied odds which is maybe what you are factoring in) would be making them draw against it only getting to see one more card. I would like your flop bet sizing more if the thought process was something like "I believed villain could easily have a hand like 88-JJ here and would not be easily folding and another diamond could kill my action so I went for value now". What I believe your large sizing does is create spots like this where villain has so much to call on the flop that their draws will either fold or jam. Thats fine if we are prepared for it and want to call off our stack. If you bet like this with other hands, though, that you are not prepared to go all the way with then I think it could lead you into trouble.

btw, congrats on a great wsop and deep run. I know I posted a few times in your WSOP thread but not sure I ever congratted you on the deep run.