DaFrench1
Visionary
Silver Level
I would like to add here that the re-raise on the flop was actually a bad move and invited the shove. I say this for the following reason, if you actually had a Q what would you do in the same spot? no doubt the majority of the time, unless you know your opponent will stack off light, is that you will call and slow-play and then re-raise the turn. So by raising the flop you are saying "I don't believe you have it" but without meaning to you are also actually saying "I don't have it either but I would really like to move you off this pot here!". This invites the shove as his response is "I do have it! (or at least I know you don't and I want you to think I do!)". So floating the flop would have been the better move here, giving you the chance to still find your two outer but also maybe opening up other possibilities (a J on the turn could be a real good card opening up another 8 outs). By the way by the same logic it also seems unlikely that he has a Q as why would he bet out the flop..
As you see this hand has got very strange because of not raising at the right time and now raising at the wrong time. Anyway regardless of that it now costs around 6K to call a pot of 15K. Pot odds of 2.5:1. That alone means you prob have to call this anyway, it is actually possible that he has a Q or 9s due to the small c-bet trying to look weak but you would have to give this a low probability of say 25% I would probably assign the same probability to his having a higher pair, more chance that he has a lower pair, and the rest to a bluff (though probably with at least one over). So imo now you got in this far you call and take your chances. It looks 50-50 now whether you win or not but the pot odds justify the call.
Thats the way I see it...
As you see this hand has got very strange because of not raising at the right time and now raising at the wrong time. Anyway regardless of that it now costs around 6K to call a pot of 15K. Pot odds of 2.5:1. That alone means you prob have to call this anyway, it is actually possible that he has a Q or 9s due to the small c-bet trying to look weak but you would have to give this a low probability of say 25% I would probably assign the same probability to his having a higher pair, more chance that he has a lower pair, and the rest to a bluff (though probably with at least one over). So imo now you got in this far you call and take your chances. It looks 50-50 now whether you win or not but the pot odds justify the call.
Thats the way I see it...
S
soonerdel
Rock Star
Silver Level
with your stack size i honestly see no need in getting involved in this hand to begin with. yes TT may be ahead of his initial range but early position raises usually means strength. since u did play the hand i see no need in doing anything but folding on this flop after the villian c-bets.
pantin007
member
Silver Level
2.5 :1 pot odds dont mean nothing if we are a 5 to 1 dog and how are we ever ahead here?
and btw, if i had a queen i will still lead out on that flop and probably reraise this guy because it seriously looks like he has a big hand. you dont need to slow play. i agree the re raise is bad and i call is much better in this situation
cardplayer52
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
i think w/ 1/3 of his stack in the pot you commited yourself to it. i really don't like to commit then fold to a shove. although here i wouldn't blame a fold. as you still got plenty chips if you do. but i still probably call here. even if i'm behind it will show that if you commit you stay commited. people will be less likely to bluff you in the near future. also your bluffs will get more repect. again great hand to post.
K
kcirjr
Enthusiast
Silver Level
This is an easy hand to get you screwed in a tourney. The best thing to do is just call here and hope a set comes up. Most likely he is not raising a lot because he has big pocket pair. I get screwed more times with 1010 then any other hand.
NoWuckingFurries
Legend
Silver Level
You can't reraise - villain is all in, and everyone else has folded. In this situation I would call.
That would be awesome - but I can't really see them shoving with that. :dontknow:A9 sooted imo
L
lewis010
Rock Star
Silver Level
maybe he has two overcards like ak, or aq, so calling here is the right option... if you hit trips in the flop you can slowplay them and win a great pot.. also with 3 cards smaller than 10, its very probable that you were ahead so you can push all in and forced your opponent to fold a great hand...
of course the situation will be different if he has a pair of jacks or queens, however that depends of the style of the style of your opponent.. you should think how many hands he played, what kind of cards, etc...
of course the situation will be different if he has a pair of jacks or queens, however that depends of the style of the style of your opponent.. you should think how many hands he played, what kind of cards, etc...
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
I wish lol. Here are results. Please keep in mind that this was long ago (over a month hehe) and I am much smarter now.
pokerstars Game #26000629009: Tournament #147359084, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2009/03/15 18:02:52 ET
Table '147359084 81' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: jefdave (7791 in chips)
Seat 2: donbarney (10227 in chips)
Seat 3: dexter77771 (8960 in chips)
Seat 4: CHIcLEADER (12925 in chips)
Seat 5: dakota-xx (28585 in chips)
Seat 6: Flotastic (4938 in chips)
Seat 7: Vanishingpot (4523 in chips)
Seat 8: megaProfiK (2510 in chips)
Seat 9: pusteblume (7847 in chips)
jefdave: posts the ante 25
donbarney: posts the ante 25
dexter77771: posts the ante 25
CHIcLEADER: posts the ante 25
dakota-xx: posts the ante 25
Flotastic: posts the ante 25
Vanishingpot: posts the ante 25
megaProfiK: posts the ante 25
pusteblume: posts the ante 25
megaProfiK: posts small blind 150
pusteblume: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dakota-xx [Th Tc]
jefdave: folds
donbarney: raises 600 to 900
dexter77771: folds
CHIcLEADER: folds
dakota-xx: calls 900
Flotastic: folds
Vanishingpot: folds
megaProfiK: folds
pusteblume: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qc Qh 9d]
pusteblume is sitting out
donbarney: bets 900
dakota-xx: raises 1800 to 2700
donbarney: raises 6602 to 9302 and is all-in
dakota-xx: calls 6602
*** TURN *** [Qc Qh 9d] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [Qc Qh 9d 4h] [2h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
donbarney: shows [Ks Kc] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
dakota-xx: shows [Th Tc] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
donbarney collected 21079 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 21079 | Rake 0
Board [Qc Qh 9d 4h 2h]
Seat 1: jefdave folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: donbarney showed [Ks Kc] and won (21079) with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 3: dexter77771 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: CHIcLEADER folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: dakota-xx showed [Th Tc] and lost with two pair, Queens and Tens
Seat 6: Flotastic folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Vanishingpot (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: megaProfiK (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: pusteblume (big blind) folded before Flop
StormRaven
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I'm still going with my original reads in my first post to this.
Without a read on the opp this is a lot more difficult... He's 900 on flop is either a probe bet or cbet or he has a Q. Problem is, which is it?
I'm probably too loose but I definitely make the call preflop although others have recommended folding, they have great reasons so I'm going with the whole I'm too loose theory.
I believe reraising was the right thing to do. It gave you a lot of information. IMO - by him shoving your reraise I am now guessing he does not have a Q. There's no value in shoving with the Q unless he is an absolute noob and got overly excited with this flop.
Maybe he has 99 and is fearful you do have the Q and will hit your kicker for a bigger boat??? Again I think this would be a noob move and not much for extracting the most chips from you.
I am now fairly confident he does not have an overpair, if he does why shove all in? It's a stupid move imo if he has KK or AA. He should be playing this flop more cautiously if he does have AA or KK imo.
I'm thinking now that he either has JJ/88 or AK/AJ/A10 and is trying to get you off the pot - OR - he is an overly excited noob with the nutz.
StormRaven
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
LOL! Now my above post doesn't matter!!! We must have been posting at same time, except mine took a lot longer to submit (cat knocked over my daughter's glass on coffee table and had to stop and clean it up, grrrr).
What a stupid move with KK! With that flop and your reraise he should have played it a LOT more cautiously!
I hate giving my chips to people like that, you know they are just going to donk them off to someone else because they get married to a hand and don't know how to let big ppr's go. He probably didn't make it very far is my guess.
What a stupid move with KK! With that flop and your reraise he should have played it a LOT more cautiously!
I hate giving my chips to people like that, you know they are just going to donk them off to someone else because they get married to a hand and don't know how to let big ppr's go. He probably didn't make it very far is my guess.
cardplayer52
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
after commiting yourself to the pot i don't mind the call. it was all the play leading up to it. in hind site if you are going to commit so many chips to this pot maybe the 2.5x 3bet preflop is the way to go. it won't commit you and you can get away from a 4bet easily. the problem is if he flats preflop then you flop an over pair do you stack there too? after calling and losing this pot you might of noticed it was easier to pick up smaller pots without a fight. people see you commit and stay in they don't want to tangle with you IMO. but again this maybe one of those hands its a small mistake to fold and big one to play. good hand to post thanks for posting it.
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
Thanks for all of the feedback - I read every post in this thread and thought about each one and how it would play out and how it could play out in the future. It has been very helpful to me to hear the different thought processes.