$10 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Hit set on flop - facing all-in - What do you do?

[vegasjj]

Having an argument with a friend about what would have been the correct action in this case.
Will appreciate your feedback.

Starting stack was 5000, average stack at the time of the hand was 7000 - just over 1 hr into the game

partypoker - $10+$0|100/200 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

HSV-ch (MP+1): 1,312 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 1.82, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, hands: 55)
pokerclown32 (MP+2): 5,270 (VPIP: 12.96, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 55)
iReduhaha (CO): 6,293 (VPIP: 18.87, PFR: 9.43, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 55)
HELL1986 (BTN): 3,645 (VPIP: 10.42, PFR: 6.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 49)
jakmor64 (SB): 3,995 (VPIP: 10.91, PFR: 3.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 55)
vegas_jj (BB): 8,261
most_vvanted (UTG): 13,737 (VPIP: 36.36, PFR: 23.64, 3Bet Preflop: 21.43, Hands: 55)
VooDoonioPL (UTG+1): 5,595 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
energie8383 (MP): 10,675 (VPIP: 26.42, PFR: 13.21, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 53)

9 players post ante of 20, jakmor64 posts SB 100, vegas_jj posts BB 200

Pre Flop: (pot: 480) vegas_jj has 7:spade: 7:heart:

most_vvanted raises to 430, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, vegas_jj calls 230

Flop: (1,140, 2 players) Q:diamond: 7:diamond: T:club:
vegas_jj checks, most_vvanted bets 570, vegas_jj raises to 1,140, most_vvanted raises to 13,287 and is all-in, vegas_jj ???

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Raising the flop is good. This seems like an aggressive player, so raising kind of gives away the strength of your hand but it protects against draws, and this is a very draw heavy board; so I like the flop raise. I might actually make a pot sized raise though instead of a min raise. something like 1,700.

then villain jams; YAY! easy call, all day. if it's set over set so be it; that's just a massive cooler but most likely his jam means he has AA with the or KK with the and we're in great shape. Sometimes he'll have a big combo draw and we're still in good shape vs. that.

well played.

 

[zefalosss]

Easy call, the board is wet, so just go all in, sometimes you will lose but it;s ok .

wet boards- fast play, dry boards-slowplay.

 

[horizon12]

Villain is a very aggressive looks like, so call preflop will be bad game, you need only 3bet here. And cbet on any board.

 

[WiZZiM]

call

Not sure why you would 3bet an UTG opener, sure he seems a little agressive, but it's only 55 hands, calling preflop is totally fine.

 

[hffjd2000]

Auto call.

No hard thinking here and we are much happy our entire chips be at the center.

The only hard blow is if he gets his draw.

 

[PokerFunKid]

Easy call. You are probably asking this because he had QQ/JJ. In the long run you will have the best hand. If he had you this time, unlucky. I like the raise on the flop. Board is wet and there's many draws on the flop. Would play it the exact same way, but i would size the raise bigger on the flop.

 

[10058765]

dunno....I think sometimes I donkbet the flop, sometimes choose to cr.
Nevertheless, as played.... yeah I agree with Mat and Jacki....cr a tad more.
No doubt I would call here though

Oh and as Wizzim said, I wouldn't 3-bet preflop either.

 

[teepack]

Instacall! Sets are so hard to detect. It's a good possibility he either has KK or AA, or either AQ. If he does have set, then so be it.

 

[PokerFunKid]

dunno....I think sometimes I donkbet the flop, sometimes choose to cr.
Nevertheless, as played.... yeah I agree with Mat and Jacki....cr a tad more.
No doubt I would call here though

Oh and as Wizzim said, I wouldn't 3-bet preflop either.

He just calls preflop i think. Where do you see a 3bet?

 

[PokerFunKid]

Villain is a very aggressive looks like, so call preflop will be bad game, you need only 3bet here. And cbet on any board.

If he's agressive it doesn't mean you have to 3bet 77. In my opinion its better to call. You're not only setmining vs his aggresion. And when you do hit a set you will get paid. With his stack size its also hard to play postflop when 3betting. He will call many flops with his aggresion. And what do you do after? He will most likely bet the turn or river and you will most likely have over on the board. 3betting here for value is a mistake i think, and 3betting as a bluf also.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

Easy call. You are probably asking this because he had QQ/JJ. In the long run you will have the best hand. If he had you this time, unlucky. I like the raise on the flop. Board is wet and there's many draws on the flop. Would play it the exact same way, but i would size the raise bigger on the flop.

QQ-TT

I was the friend she asked, but she is a bit stubborn and find out every time, I was right with my analyze ±D, these posts are more from an attention point of view from Judith also a bit see how ul I am. Joke haha

I think checkraising flop slightly bigger is better btw.

 

[WiZZiM]

He just calls preflop i think. Where do you see a 3bet?

Villain is a very aggressive looks like, so call preflop will be bad game, you need only 3bet here. And cbet on any board.

He was referring to my post, which was referring to horizons comment about only 3betting here. Both a call and 3bet are options preflop. but this guy doesnt seem like he's crazy aggressive, just that we have a small likely skewed sample on him, i would just think he's looser than average, and possibly spewey, but that doesnt change the fact he's opening UTG, which makes that 20% PFR like maybe 10-15% possibly throwing in some weird bluff type 67s type hands too, vs that range though, 3betting is really just asking to play a big pot as these players don't really like folding much, so while 3betting and c-betting will work a decent amount, we may as well have a hand like 72o, bc that flops about as well as 77 does in a 3bet pot, we're essentially just bluffing because we have a pair, rather than thinking through what we are doing with our ranges. We would rather just muck this spot and choose a spot later on when he opens from a later position and where his range should be very wide, like him in late position and we're in the SB, we can happily 3bet a huge range of hands.

So we need to have a calling range here, and small-mid pocket pairs are great ones to call, we can potentially hit a big hand (and we have odds to play for setmining only) or we can take some flops away from him as bluffs, which will usually have a much higher frequency of working since we get to decide which flops don't hit his range as much. Other good hands to call will be stuff like KQ AJ etc, as this will dominate a decent chunk of his range, and we can take away a big pot postflop if we have him stuck dominated.

anyways enough babble. hope this helps horizon more than anyone....

 

[PokerFunKid]

QQ-TT

I was the friend she asked, but she is a bit stubborn and find out every time, I was right with my analyze ±D, these posts are more from an attention point of view from Judith also a bit see how ul I am. Joke haha

I think checkraising flop slightly bigger is better btw.

Yeah i mean QQ/TT

 

[Spikefinger]

never fold sets in early stadies

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

QQ-TT

I was the friend she asked, but she is a bit stubborn and find out every time, I was right with my analyze ±D, these posts are more from an attention point of view from Judith also a bit see how ul I am. Joke haha

I think checkraising flop slightly bigger is better btw.

So what is the real question here? did she actually fold? (God I hope not) or did she just run into a massive cooler with set over set? I know we're not supposed to discuss results...but other than HOW MUCH to check raise I don't see any other real decision points here.

 

[vegasjj]

Thank you all for taking time and answering/ posting.

Clearly - the answer was unanimous.

Yes I did call - but was somewhat reluctant to do so, and after losing the hand - I figured I made the wrong decision.
RELUCTANT - call - because... he did raise pre - he did raise post flop - and he went all-in AFTER A CHECK RAISE... of course he is a very aggressive player I could see that from the stats - and it was a factor in my decision to call... but still definite worry - that he did go all-in after check raise.

Just wanted to explain my reasoning - why in this case I felt that this was a bad luck spot I should have read - that it is bad and perhaps should have folded.
Overall I am pleased that I made the correct decision - not so pleased that after the fact I became shaky in it.

Here is the complete hand

partypoker - $10+$0|100/200 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

HSV-ch (MP+1): 1,312 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 1.82, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 55)
pokerclown32 (MP+2): 5,270 (VPIP: 12.96, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 55)
iReduhaha (CO): 6,293 (VPIP: 18.87, PFR: 9.43, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 55)
HELL1986 (BTN): 3,645 (VPIP: 10.42, PFR: 6.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 49)
jakmor64 (SB): 3,995 (VPIP: 10.91, PFR: 3.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 55)
vegas_jj (BB): 8,261
most_vvanted (UTG): 13,737 (VPIP: 36.36, PFR: 23.64, 3Bet Preflop: 21.43, Hands: 55)
VooDoonioPL (UTG+1): 5,595 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
energie8383 (MP): 10,675 (VPIP: 26.42, PFR: 13.21, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 53)

9 players post ante of 20, jakmor64 posts SB 100, vegas_jj posts BB 200

Pre Flop: (pot: 480) vegas_jj has 7:spade: 7:heart:

most_vvanted raises to 430, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, vegas_jj calls 230

Flop: (1,140, 2 players) Q:diamond: 7:diamond: T:club:
vegas_jj checks, most_vvanted bets 570, vegas_jj raises to 1,140, most_vvanted raises to 13,287 and is all-in, vegas_jj calls 6,671 and is all-in

Turn: (16,762, 2 players) 6:spade:

River: (16,762, 2 players) 9:diamond:

vegas_jj shows 7:spade: 7:heart: (Three of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 19%, Flop 4%, Turn 2%)
most_vvanted shows T:diamond: T:spade: (Three of a Kind, Tens)
(Pre 81%, Flop 96%, Turn 98%)
most_vvanted wins 5,476
most_vvanted wins 16,762

 

[thatgreekdude]

snap call. You can never fold a set. Opponent plays it horribly but yeah.

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

So what is the real question here? did she actually fold? (God I hope not) or did she just run into a massive cooler with set over set? I know we're not supposed to discuss results...but other than HOW MUCH to check raise I don't see any other real decision points here.

Agreed!

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

never fold sets in early stadies

Do you fold flopped ones in later stages

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

in late middle only

Always and never are words to avoid in poker....but I'm gonna say you should almost never fold a set on the flop. Maybe in the turn or river if the run out is ugly but not the flop.

 

[Spikefinger]

Always and never are words to avoid in poker....but I'm gonna say you should almost never fold a set on the flop. Maybe in the turn or river if the run out is ugly but not the flop.

to be honest, i never fold sets on flop. pre-flop maybe, rarely

 

[MasterOfDisaster]

to be honest, i never fold sets on flop. pre-flop maybe, rarely

preflop sets You are funny m8

 

[trent32la]

Preflop is fine.

Clicking back the flop is terrible this deep with a board that wet. I would check raise to about 2k here. You have to call his overshove.

 

[MrBadAss]

its a clearly call ofc, but has you will hit a set 1/8 times i would raise pre flop, that played ofc you raise flop and he can do the 4bet shove with QJ,Q7s,J7s, and any suited combos that are on flush draw