$10 NLHE MTT: AK early in MTT ($11 Sunday Storm)

[mstram]

I satellite'd into today's Sunday Storm, planning to play "taggy / nitty", as I have very little experience in anything other than micro limits.

Should I have 3bet preflop ?

Should I have 3bet any of the streets?


Hand Information
pokerstars No Limit, 100 BB (9 handed).

Villian vp=16 pr=9 (87 hands)
Hero vp=37 pr=21

Table Information
Seat: 1 (BTN)Hero (t9732)
Seat: 9 (CO) villian (t5170)

Dealt to Hero

Preflop (Pot:150)
(5 folds)

villian RAISE $300
Hero CALL $300

SB FOLD
BB FOLD

Flop(Pot: $750)

villian BET $375
Hero CALL $375

Turn(Pot: $1500)

villian BET $750
Hero CALL $750

River(Pot: $3000)

villian BET $3000
Hero ???

 

[J_moly88]

I would 3bet pre-flop to 8-900. As he's not a maniac I would fold to a 4bet.

As played I would have got away from the hand on the turn, possibly even on the flop.

 

[mstram]

Ya, I called pretty quickly, and immediately regretted not taking a few seconds at least to think it over.

Another thought in hindsight, is to shove ?? , as I have him outstacked by almost 2:1.

Not pleasant to think about losing half your stack, but how often do you get AK ?

.... Heh, well in my case it was 1 / 123 hands.

 

[J_moly88]

To shove when? On the river, he only needs to put in another 600ish chips I think, so that's an instant call.

As for shoving pre, wouldn't be my plan of attack at >50bb deep, you'll either be winning the blinds, or probably end up behind on the range of hands you'd probably get called with.

 

[thatgreekdude]

should of 3bet pre flop, also don't understand why you're falling in love with A high, CO stats don't look loose at all looks more on the conservative side, after he leads the flop your call is fine, then when he leads the turn we have to fold and give him credit occasionally folding the best hand, how are you so sure your Ace kicker is good, i'd assume QJ AJ KJ are most likely within CO's opening range.

 

[mstram]

Well even when I called his flop bet, I couldn't decide whether he was just cbetting or really had it, likewise with the turn.

Why do we have to fold on the turn, and not on the flop ?

I haven't worked out any numbers for the flop vs turn calls.

If he's so tight, and doesn't have it, why the big pot bet on the river ?

Doesn't that look like a bluff ?

I just automatically assumed he did have it at that point ... or maybe I just didn't want to spew another 3K, so I did finally fold the river.

 

[thatgreekdude]

Well even when I called his flop bet, I couldn't decide whether he was just cbetting or really had it, likewise with the turn.

Why do we have to fold on the turn, and not on the flop ?

I haven't worked out any numbers for the flop vs turn calls.

If he's so tight, and doesn't have it, why the big pot bet on the river ?

Doesn't that look like a bluff ?

I just automatically assumed he did have it at that point ... or maybe I just didn't want to spew another 3K, so I did finally fold the river.

we call the flop because we still might be ahead of some his range and we want to see if he's just c-betting with a missed hand, in most cases he'll then check the turn and shutdown and fold if we bet. Just because someone bets big doesn't mean it's a bluff, that river was a nice card for villain if he's holding a jack, prevents him from being outkicked if he had a hand like J10 he now chops up with AJ KJ, as for the bluff it all boils down to if you think that villain is capable of firing a triple barrel bluff with a high hand, if you've seen villain make a lot of goofy plays and you think you have a read by all means call but don't be too shocked when he shows you the goods the majority of the time.

 

[hffjd2000]

I believe we should stop on the turn.

Even though pot odds warrants, our outs don't guarantee a win.

 

[Arjonius]

we call the flop because we still might be ahead of some his range and we want to see if he's just c-betting with a missed hand, in most cases he'll then check the turn and shutdown and fold if we bet.

Actually, part of the reason to 3bet pre- is to make it less likely we'll be faced with calling a flop bet. We want to take the initiative pre- so he's more likely to check the flop to us. This is preferable to calling pre-, then calling again on the flop when we miss in the hope he'll check the turn and fold if we bet at that point. It's also a possible consideration that we're likely to face somewhat more second barrels at this level than we would in smaller buyins or if the stacks were shallower.

 

[Propane Goat]

I think it's unlikely villain is bluffing on the river here after betting both the flop and turn, as others said I would have 3-bet preflop. I also think there's no way you can call on the river here with Ace high on a two-paired board, because there's so much out there that could have hit the villain's range. Pretty much the only hands you're beating here are 77-22, and it costs too much to find out if that's the case with this board texture.

It's standard for the pre-flop raiser to bet the flop even if he didn't hit it at all, which is why we call on the flop to see if he gives up on the turn. You have to be careful with this though, some players will raise preflop, flop the nuts, bet, then check the turn to make it look like they missed the flop when they haven't, to induce a turn or river bet from their opponent. Therefore, don't automatically take a check on the turn to mean that villain has nothing, he could be trapping with a strong hand and waiting for you to take a stab at the pot.

 

[nykaktak]

I would 3bet pre-flop to 8-900. As he's not a maniac I would fold to a 4bet.

As played I would have got away from the hand on the turn, possibly even on the flop.

absolutely correct decision, I most likely would make quite so: Rolleyes:

 

[thatgreekdude]

Actually, part of the reason to 3bet pre- is to make it less likely we'll be faced with calling a flop bet. We want to take the initiative pre- so he's more likely to check the flop to us. This is preferable to calling pre-, then calling again on the flop when we miss in the hope he'll check the turn and fold if we bet at that point. It's also a possible consideration that we're likely to face somewhat more second barrels at this level than we would in smaller buyins or if the stacks were shallower.

Well yes i agree, I did recommend 3betting pre in my first post, i didn't understand flatting in that spot. Yup we sure will face a lot more double barrels at this stake, but because of how the hand played pre- (should be 3betting for value and information) i'd insta muck the turn, boards just too scary and so many combinations have us beat.

 

[anthony c]

Fold,fold,fold
Think about it you can only beat a semi bluff and i believe KTs is the only draw u beat unless his manic that opens with 76 if his got 87,98,t9,jt,qj,kq,aj,aq and so on his got you.
AND HE MUST BE 3 BARREL BLUFFING YOU
I understand flop call but you got to fold turn and river 100% of the time unless he can 3 barrel bluff and i doubt it

 

[mstram]

I didn't understand flatting in that spot.

I briefly thought of 3b, but (for no good reason) decided to flat.

My woefully inadequate (will work on it) skill set showed there

I have only mainly played fr's where 3b pretty much means shove (and in early stages, "real poker principles" don't even apply.

For that reason I would never have entered this tourney with the $11 buyin, I only "donked" in from FR's -> $1.00 sat.

In the pursuit of knowledge, I'm reading the "HUSNG Mersenneary Ebook", which talks about 3b situations.

Yup we sure will face a lot more double barrels at this stake

Please expand. I.e. more than lower / higher stakes ?

 

[mstram]

Fold,fold,fold
Think about it you can only beat a semi bluff and i believe KTs is the only draw u beat unless his manic that opens with 76 if his got 87,98,t9,jt,qj,kq,aj,aq and so on his got you.

See post #6 I eventually gave up (heh only probably because of his mega bet)

I understand flop call but you got to fold turn and river 100% of the time unless he can 3 barrel bluff and i doubt it

As others mentioned, and I was thinking the same, even flop call was iffy.

I had recently been reading about cbet's and the theory that when a player "had it" he might be more likely to check the flop rather than cbetting. And that is exactly what I was thinking (rightly or wrongly).

With how tight villian (and everyone else) was playing at that point, it was hard to tell what the cbet meant.

 

[thatgreekdude]

Please expand. I.e. more than lower / higher stakes ?

The higher up you go the better the players will be, at lower stakes people won't usually be capable of double barreling light, at higher stakes it's pretty normal to see. Most players at lower stakes will give up on the turn when there cbet gets called, they'll usually only continue with a made hand they want to take to showdown.