$10 NLHE MTT: AK call/shove on turn?

[masadad]

No Limit Holdem Tournament
partypoker 9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter

Stacks:
UTG (3,320) 83bb
UTG+1 Hero (3,280) 82bb
MP1 (1,400) 35bb
MP2 (3,200) 80bb
MP3 (3,480) 87bb
CO (2,760) 69bb
BTN (3,600) 90bb
SB (3,020) 76bb
BB (2,940) 74bbBlinds: 20/40

Pre-Flop: (120, 9 players) Hero is UTG+1 A:heart: K:spade:
1 fold, Hero raises to 160, 6 folds, BB raises to 440, Hero calls 280

Flop: 8:heart: 4:spade: Q:heart: (960, 2 players)
BB bets 450, Hero calls 450

Turn: K:heart: (1,860, 2)
BB bets 400, Hero ??

 

[WiZZiM]

fold flop..

as played call or raise are both fine depending on what type of player he is and what types of ranges you think he can have here.

 

[masadad]

you are right. i should have folded flop...

 

[victory22422]

But if you already have seen the turn, i think you could call and see the river or push. BB bets not so much, so i think he is weak

 

[ph_il]

It's an easy call on the turn. It's very possible you have the best hand and the K is a scare card. You're also drawing to the nut flush on an unpaired board getting better than 5.5:1 to call.

You could also consider shoving to get max value on your hand if you think your opponent will call with a weaker K or flush draw. And even if you're behind to KQ or made flush, you have lot of outs.

 

[masadad]

thanks for all the feedback.

now let me talk a little about what i thought about his range and all that from preflop.

Preflop
since he went for a 3bet i put him on any pocket pairs JJ+ or AQ, AJ, AK or even QJs, KJs.

Flop
now with two hearts on the flop and( me holding A:heart: K:spade: ) i put him on KJs with a flush draw at best. if not a flush then AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, KQ or AJ.

so he puts a less than half-pot cbet. now i narrow his range to AA, KK, KJs(flush draw) i don't think he has QQ because then he should have bet bigger to protect hand from draws. so i just call and decided to fold if i didn't hit anything on the turn.

Turn
now comes the turn a K:heart: :| now him having a flush is less likely. even if he does maybe he's got JTs at best but i don't expect him to 3bet out of position with hands like JTs or KQs preflop so no more flush for him. i don't think he has KK because i got one K and there's another K on the turn, so already 2 out there and him having the other two is very less likely plus the way he played post flop doesn't represent KK.

great. with all that information i can now finally narrow it all down to

1. AA(again a bit less likely with me holding one ace, but still possible)
3. AQ/AK
4. JJ

so with a nut flush draw and lots of outs i am definitely not folding. i can either call to see the river or shove. if i call to see the river and it turns out to be a heart then i'm losing value because he'll be folding right away. so, i decided to shove and get maximum value. the only hand that has me beat here is AA.

even if i call and don't hit a flush on river, i would have been already very much committed to the pot and would call his shove anyways with top pair and top kicker.

so this is how it all ended...

Turn: K:heart: (1,860, 2)
BB bets 400, Hero goes all-in 2,390, BB goes all-in 1,650

River: 2:club: (6,300, 2), 2 all-in

Final Pot: 6,300
BB shows
K:diamond: K:club:
Hero shows
A:heart: K:spade:

BB wins 5,900 (net +2,960)

Hero collects 680 (net -2,600)

KK was the least of all hands i expected him to have... but hey it's online poker! so f**k the odds and outs and always expect the unexpected.

 

[WiZZiM]

once you get to the turn you corner yourself into playing for the rest of your chips.

try not to exclude hands, the key is to weight them as less likely but still a posibility.

 

[Xmaster]

I think that both lines are good.

 

[Viera56]

stupid pf bet size imo (4x), that way u put a LARGE banner at your hand. You have always be not trackeable.

 

[masadad]

stupid pf bet size imo (4x), that way u put a LARGE banner at your hand. You have always be not trackeable.

really? i have always been told to bet 4x or 3x preflop to get rid of trash hands from limping in or calling and hitting a lucky flop. and maximize chances of winning by going heads up or 3 handed.

 

[Tomasz]

100 BB deep open 4 X is ok , once x/call flop is ok , turn bet is the question of whether you are a king or maybe better , i play just call and decide river , villain is unbalanced percieved range

i never raised TPTK when i am WA/WB turn , its crazy for me , i chooose realization EQ

 

[leorulex]

in my opinion just call turn and see the river

 

[Poker Orifice]

KK was the least of all hands i expected him to have... but hey it's online poker! so f**k the odds and outs and always expect the unexpected.

LOL
You get an A+ for making such a ridiculous comment. As if online poker has anything to do with it... take some f'n responsibility you baby.

 

[razva_raz94]

I think you should have fold on the flop. As for online odds,its normal to see more weird hands online because you play a lot more hands online than live.
Its just variance.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

preflop is good

Flop....Folding is safest and most standard. But I will sometimes float with position and 2 overs and backdoor hearts. It depends on the tendencies of my opponent; but you can't always give up on this flop. I'll probably fold 70% and float 30%. More floating vs. certain opponents.

Turn: BINK! We obviously love that card and our only options are between flatting and jamming. Flatting is good if we think his 3bet range is very strong and he might have Aces or a set of queens or kings. Jamming is good if we think he will stack off with a hand like AQ and he might find a fold if a 4th heart comes on the river. I think I generally prefer flatting here because even though our hand is too strong to fold, our jam will generally get called by hands that beat us.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

so with a nut flush draw and lots of outs i am definitely not folding. i can either call to see the river or shove. if i call to see the river and it turns out to be a heart then i'm losing value because he'll be folding right away. so, i decided to shove and get maximum value. the only hand that has me beat here is AA.

even if i call and don't hit a flush on river, i would have been already very much committed to the pot and would call his shove anyways with top pair and top kicker.

Even though we are not folding either way, and the outcome will be the same either way (all our chips going in the middle at some point) There is still an optimal way to play our hand. It's because you need to think of ranges instead of trying to put him on a specific hand. Vs. his specific hand it will always turn out that we lose once we see the turn. But vs. his RANGE flatting the turn is higher +EV than jamming the turn. When we flat we are underplaying/underrepping our hand and therefore we'll do better vs his remaining range that puts chips in at the river. When we jam we fold out the parts of his range that we are beating.