$1 NLHE STT: STT - FD, Bet/Call Flop and nitty Fold Facing turn bet?

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Nigginger

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Hi guys, had this hand in $1 SNG on 888.

I only have 20 hands on villain, but his stats until now are VP10, PFR0

888Poker, $0.90 + $0.10 - Hold'em No Limit - 30/60 (5 ante) - 7 players
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UTG: 1,470 (25 bb)
MP: 1,515 (25 bb)
MP+1: 3,305 (55 bb)
CO: 1,525 (25 bb)
BU: 1,380 (23 bb)
SB (Hero): 2,775 (46 bb)
BB: 1,530 (26 bb)

Pre-Flop: (125) Hero is SB with Q 9
5 players fold, Hero raises to 150, BB calls 90

Flop: (335) 3 T 3 (2 players)
Hero bets 167, BB raises to 334, Hero calls 167

Turn: (1,003) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 540, SB (Hero) folds

I thought about shoving over his minraise on the flop, because i have one overcard and a flush draw, but people on this stakes often stick to their hands and i was not sure if i have any Fold equity. So i didnt want to gamble for most of my stack here.

With the turn i improve to a Gutshot + Flush Draw. I thought about leading (or shoving?) again so maybe he just calls and i get to see a cheap river. But I didn't know which bet sizing I should take and I didnt want to get raised again. So I checked... And then I folded to his bet.. Afterwards I thougt that the Fold was too nitty, but actually I don't really know how I should have played the hand and that was probably the reason why i folded.

Looking forward to here your opinion on that hand.
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
With 26BB effective I will often limp from SB. The reason is, aggressive players will do a lot of jamming over a 3BB open, or they will call and then try to outplay you after the flop. This might be more of an issue though, when you move up, and against a tight passive opponent it can be fine to continue raising even with this stack size. Especially when you have them covered, so that most of the pressure is on them.

Flop
Totally on board with C-betting, and of course it sucks to get raised. If you call, pot is around 1.000, and he has around 1.000 chips left, so just about a pot sized bet. I kind of agree with your own assessment, that you probably have fairly little fold equity here. I am not so worried about a full house, but I think, you are looking at a lot of top pair and some dominating flushdraws, and if you jam, he is just going to go with it. So I do agree with your decision to just call.

Turn
You picked up a gutshot, and he bet half his remaining stack. This looks very value heavy to me, because he basically committed himself to the pot. I think, his range is now mostly made hands, and then its basically a math decision. You are getting 3:1, so you need 25% equity on raw pot odds. I think, you actually have that, or at least very close. And I also think, you can always get his stack, if you improve on the river. On the other hand if you brick, its completely fine to fold even getting 5:1, because you then have Q high, and you are just never good. So I would call again and then donk jam all rivers, where I make a flush, a straight or even top pair. If I brick or hit a 9, then I just give up and check-fold.
 
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Nigginger

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Preflop
Turn
You picked up a gutshot, and he bet half his remaining stack. This looks very value heavy to me, because he basically committed himself to the pot. I think, his range is now mostly made hands, and then its basically a math decision. You are getting 3:1, so you need 25% equity on raw pot odds. I think, you actually have that, or at least very close. And I also think, you can always get his stack, if you improve on the river. On the other hand if you brick, its completely fine to fold even getting 5:1, because you then have Q high, and you are just never good. So I would call again and then donk jam all rivers, where I make a flush, a straight or even top pair. If I brick or hit a 9, then I just give up and check-fold.


Thank you! Yeah I also thougt about the Odds I am getting. Would have been a better Idea to call.
 
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fundiver199

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Would have been a better Idea to call.

Especially when you are the player with the largest stack. Having 1.800 or 2.300 chips left does not drastically change your situation or playbility in future hands. Whereas if you had his stack, then there is a big difference between being left with 500 or 1.000 chips, and you should lean more towards folding the turn.
 
monkey23

monkey23

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i like your bet to open pre...

the flop is good for you...sure...and your bet might get a fold...but when oppo min raises, a little alarm bell rings. But there is nothing wrong with your call, considering both your pot and implied odds. Now approx 950 chips in the pot.

the turn gives you 2 extra outs...you check...rightly...and oppo bets just over half pot....and is presumably pot committed leaving you no fold equity.

i would also fold in this situation, and look for a better spot. You still have a good stack.
 
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stomper33

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I heard a pro once say the mistakes that will cost you the most money is preflop, something that often gets overlooked. Sure, post flop is much more interesting and it is those streets where you lose the most in terms of chips, but preflop mistakes can easily put you into those situations. So start nailing in your preflop ranges before anything else.

At this stack depth, there is plenty of more poker to be played. Sure, you are the big stack and you can put some more pressure on opponents, however, this pressure is far less valuable than it will be after 2-3 more levels. As such, I think you should look to avoid marginal spots in big pots, especially OOP. SBvBB is the most frequent occurrence of this.

Of course, we can still be looking to blind steal, but make sure to use all of your fold equity as the big stack. If looking to blind steal from the SB, 2.5x is too small at this stack depth.

However, I much prefer a limp with this hand. We are not really getting worse hands to call (sure some lower suited connectors and offsuit broadways, but you're only a small favorite against these holdings), and we are certainly not getting worse hands to fold. I think you should be fairly polarized in this spot.

I think the best play is to limp with the intention to call any reasonable raise. As played though, I think the cbet on the flop is fine. But then you get raised and are hating life and have to call off at least one bet. Usually at micro/lower stakes, if people clap back, they usually have something. Like a previous poster mentioned, you likely have little fold equity, but you have to call off flop. I think a more profitable play would be to check raise the flop. You get many of his hands to bet fold, and you can make him hate life with his T6s on later streets.

Turn, even if you might have correct odds, it's barely profitable so I would fold to preserve my stack (you don't want to all of the sudden switch stacks with the guy on your left on a draw). This is why I don't like raising pre. You build a pot OOP with a decent hand against a wide range. Many marginal spots come up like this one that I think are worth avoiding in general at this stage. People play so poorly that these spots aren't worth it.
 
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fundiver199

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you don't want to all of the sudden switch stacks with the guy on your left on a draw. This is why I don't like raising pre.


This is actually a very good point. The worst possible situation in a poker tournament is to have one of the chipleaders on your direct left. So when we are a chipleader, we want to use that to put pressure on players on our right, but not so much the player on our left. At least not until we are closer to the bubble, and blinds have gone up, so maybe we can just jam on him preflop. And this is another reason, why limping preflop is so much better in this spot than making a small raise, that always gets called. If we had limped, the pot would be much smaller, and we would have plenty of stack left behind to call his turn bet.
 
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