$1 NLHE: MTT Mid Stage Preflop Reraise AI

[shanks99]

$1 NL HE: MTT Mid Stage Preflop Reraise AI

Hi all,

I would like your perspectives on this hand that I played today.

MTT with ~700 entrants, buyin $1
Blinds 60/120

Hero in SB, stack 10,185 dealt Jh Js
UTG limps
CO limps
Button raises to 850
Hero reraises to 1800
BB and limpers fold
Button goes all in for 6605

Button had recently been moved to my table, so I really didn't have a read on him.

I figured Button for the following:

1) Has monster, AA or KK
2) Has crap and was running a button steal, got played back at, and decided to shove light
3) Has something like middle pair or even AK or AQ, and is looking to race

What to do????

 

[c9h13no3]

Once you pump this to 1800, you have to call the shove. You're getting roughly 2:1, and you certainly have 40% equity or so in this pot that you require to make this call profitable.

Standard call, and since its a $1 tournament, I think we can fist-pump twice.

 

[OzExorcist]

Call. We're still 20% against overpairs and we'll still have an M around 20 if we get beat - and that's the worst case scenario.

FWIW I'd be surprised if this is a naked bluff (though anything's possible, especially in a $1 MTT). But it's certainly AK/AQ/lower pairs and maybe even lower Ax hands often enough.

 

[shanks99]

Thanks C9 and Oz for your thoughts.

I ended up calling his all-in shove, and my JJ went up against QQ and ended up losing a huge pot. I figured that if I won, I'd be up around top 3 in chips, making a deep run more likely.

My first instinct when I did a post game analysis was that made the right play, but I wanted to get other opinions.

 

[Jillychemung]

Why was yur 3-bet so small?? Just a bit bigger than a min-raise. It makes it appear that you are either donk playing AA or have exactly what you had a mid-pair. Any raise by you will commit you to the pot as C9 & Oz say so you need to decide to either set mine or properly raise it. I don't mind a set mine here if the limpers will come along. If you are going to 3-bet here then either jam it or make a 'standard' raise to 2700-3000. IMHO this bet sizing puts more pressure on opponent than your min-raise.

 

[GordonStr222]

I Agree with Jillychemung about you're 3bet being so small.. I like to 3bet at least to 3X-4x the initial raise especially playing short handed... Although, this is a 1$ buy in you can't just suspect the player to be inexperienced or shove light until you know for sure.. I have done this same mistake of judging my opponents by the stake of the game and I have ran into a lot of surprises.. I don't think an unknown opponent would shove 55BB PF Light... The pot odds are 1.7:1 to call this hand you would have to be up against 2 overs or one over but for 55BB unlikely.. I would fold and get a better read on my opponent before committing to many chips on a move like that.... You should ask you're self why would he want to shove light in this situation if there has not been any previous action between you two... I think making the 3x or 4x raise you would be much more sure of where you are...

 

[shanks99]

Why was yur 3-bet so small?? Just a bit bigger than a min-raise.

My reraise may have been a little on the small side, but it was for almost 30% of his stack. Given the stage of the tournament that we were in, I thought that was a very strong reraise.

If you are going to 3-bet here then either jam it or make a 'standard' raise to 2700-3000.

I'm not sure why re-raising to 2700-3000 would be much different than me just shoving. By 3 betting to 3000 I'm making him put in almost 50% of his stack, so assuming he's any good, he's either folding or shoving. In either case he's shoving, since if he shoved when I reraised to 1800, he's definitely shoving if I reraise to 3000.

My thought process here was if he called 1800, then I'd put him on AA or KK, since he wanted to see the flop and possibly get more chips via me betting. With him shoving it looked like he didn't want a call, so I put more probability towards bluff or AK/AQ.

I Agree with Jillychemung about you're 3bet being so small.. I like to 3bet at least to 3X-4x the initial raise especially playing short handed.

I think you interpreted the info that I provided as the table being short handed, but in reality it was full ring. I just didn't put in the "folds". So given that we were full ring, would that swing your analysis one way vs another.

To both Jilly and Gordon, I'm truly interested in your responses, since I'm still learning this game. I'm not trying to defend my play here, I'm really trying to understand the reasoning behind your reponses.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Jillychemung]

I take my lead on this raise size from something that Rizen wrote in either his book or his blog. Going AI removes a decision point from our opponents and more desision points means more that an opponent has to think about. Essentially it comes down to 'feel' and opportunities for opponents to make a mistake.

If we raise we know that WE are pot committed but on occasion you get an opponent that 'just doesn't get it' so the raise gives him/her 3 things to think about, shove/fold/call, and this adds confusion to these players. Going AI only leaves them with 2 choices fold or call.

If we raise a 'standard' amount w/o going AI it provides the 'feel' to an opponent that they could bluff-shove over us which they can't since we WILL ALWAYS call here.

 

[GordonStr222]

My reraise may have been a little on the small side, but it was for almost 30% of his stack. Given the stage of the tournament that we were in, I thought that was a very strong reraise.



I'm not sure why re-raising to 2700-3000 would be much different than me just shoving. By 3 betting to 3000 I'm making him put in almost 50% of his stack, so assuming he's any good, he's either folding or shoving. In either case he's shoving, since if he shoved when I reraised to 1800, he's definitely shoving if I reraise to 3000.

My thought process here was if he called 1800, then I'd put him on AA or KK, since he wanted to see the flop and possibly get more chips via me betting. With him shoving it looked like he didn't want a call, so I put more probability towards bluff or AK/AQ.




I think you interpreted the info that I provided as the table being short handed, but in reality it was full ring. I just didn't put in the "folds". So given that we were full ring, would that swing your analysis one way vs another.

To both Jilly and Gordon, I'm truly interested in your responses, since I'm still learning this game. I'm not trying to defend my play here, I'm really trying to understand the reasoning behind your reponses.

Thanks in advance!

Hey well since this hand was actually full handed I would have more of a reason to fold to his 4bet All in because there is more of a chance that someone has a higher pocket pair than yours. I would put him on a 4bet All in bluff or weak hand until I have reason to believe his pushing light... I just don't see anyone pushing light here with 55BB in a full ring or 6 handed table tourney... Now if this was heads up play I would call his all in since there is only a 6% chance of you being up against a pocket pair....

 

[c9h13no3]

I would have more of a reason to fold to his 4bet All in because there is more of a chance that someone has a higher pocket pair than yours

Wat?

pot odds: 8525/4805 = 1.77:1 or 36%

Hand 0: 63.810% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 36.190% { JJ }

Even if villain only shoves QQ+ & AK, we have pot odds to call. Folding here makes baby jesus cry. I also don't mind the smallish 3-bet.

 

[GordonStr222]

Wat?

Pot Odds: 8525/4805 = 1.77:1 or 36%

Hand 0: 63.810% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 36.190% { JJ }

Even if villain only shoves QQ+ & AK, we have pot odds to call. Folding here makes baby jesus cry. I also don't mind the smallish 3-bet.

I see you're reasoning if you put villain shoving with (QQ+, Aks, AKo)

63.81%(QQ+,AKs, AKo)
vs.
36.19%(JJ)

I agree with you here....

But I wouldn't think villain would shove for 55BB with just AKs or AKo...
If you discount these two possibilities and actually put him on
(QQ+)
Hand 1: JJ- 18.363%
Hand 2: QQ+ - 81.637

1.7:1 pot ...
4:1 odds....
makes this a bad call......

 

[c9h13no3]

put him on (QQ+)

You just put a player in a $1 donkament on QQ+. Seriously, his likely shoving range is like 22+, A2+, K9+, QJs. That may be a slight exaggeration, but we certainly have enough equity to call here.

 

[GordonStr222]

Yeah I guess you're right... So what if this was a higher buy in tourney, would you be more inclined to fold here? Say anywhere from $150+ buyins.....

 

[c9h13no3]

Yeah I guess you're right... So what if this was a higher buy in tourney, would you be more inclined to fold here? Say anywhere from $150+ buyins.....

No. It would take a hell of a read to get me to lay down jacks button vs. blind.

 

[AceZWylD]

call the shove. you still have enough chips relative to blinds to come back from a loss here, but could very well be in a great position. i actually put him on a high pp here, but your pf raise makes you pot committed here, and there is too much equity in the pot to fold at this point.