$1.65 NL HE MTT: QQ from BB in a multiway pot

[dallam]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

1.65

Game Options

1. Bounty

Currency

$

Hand1

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Chipleading the table with almost 100bbs. Not so much hand played on this one. UTG ( has a Micromillions badge and close to our stack) raises to 2.2bbs and 3 flats. We are the upcoming with QQ on BB.
UTG (villain): 31.490 (79bb)
UTG+1: 14.596 (36.5bb)
LJ: 8.756 (22bb)
HJ: 24.142 (60bb)
CO: 28.867 (72.2bb)
BTN: 15.767 (39.4bb)
SB: 16.506 (41.3bb)
BB (hero): 39.015 (97.5bb)
Pre-flop (1.080), Hero is BB
UTG bets 880 , UTG+1 calls 880, 2 players fold, CO calls 880, BTN calls 880, 1 player folds
BB 3-bets to 3440, UTG 4-bets to 9200, 3 players fold, BB calls 5760

Flop (21.720)
Hero bets 4500, UTG calls 4500

Turn (30.720)
Hero checks, UTG goes all-in 17.790, Hero calls 17.790

River (66.300)

Hero shows: Pair of Queens
Villain shows:


Wondering how you see this hand.
Can you see similarities maybe improvement on my latest QQ? : https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-hand-analysis-51/7-5-nl-he-mtt-511574/
What pieces of advice can you give me?



Hand2

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/6258GQlbJ

Still from the same 1.65$ Bounty game.
ˇˇˇ
We had around a top10 stack, and almost 100 left.
How would you play this line?



Thank you in advance for the feedbacks, as always

GL!

 

[Andyreas]

Preflop:
With so many callers, you could even 3-bet a little higher also close to x4 is already a decent sizing IMO.

Flop:
Idk why you bet less than 25% of the pot? I'd bet something between 1/3 to 1/2 here.

Turn:
I might have fired again but check and evaluate is ok to me to.
His shove indicates a set which improved to a FH or maybe an overpair? Since you have the queens, he might have the kings? Or aces?
But ofc you still have to call here.

Now I'm curious to see what he got.

Spoiler: After checking

AK, haha. Stupid bluff which totally failed. 😅 I never understand why people bluff big in PKOs.

Well played!

 

[ipagan]

About Hand 1: Have you consider to just push with this hand on his 4bet?

 

[D0nk3y Hunt3r]

On cash I would be all in preflop.
Preflop on MTT: I would flat as you after 4 bet.
Flop: bet more, 2/3 of pot on flop and would be considering folding after reraise if in stack preservation mode.
Turn: given the flop line, all in on turn instead of checking, his stack is covered in case of bad weather

Reasoning: this smells like teen..., I mean big pocket pair from beginning. Betting large on flop would give you information whether it's true. If AA and KK combos are eliminated from range, I would proceed to stack villain as fast as I can.

 

[dallam]

About Hand 1: Have you consider to just push with this hand on his 4bet?

When 3 flats its already a good chance that some Aces or Kings are already dead-cards.
However we do have to count that AA and KK could be easily in villain's hand. Who is second in chips at this table. And as he showed a huge determination about this pot by making a 4-bet, we 're better to do this safe way, as AA and KK both could be in my hand as well. It means that we didn't go stack vs stack in the first place, when all the other players are possible future's bounties, we rather giving us and for him more streets to take it down or get away in time. His range is pretty polarised at this point don't forget and in a bounty on this paricular circumstances I think it would be a mistake to go for it pre.

If opp have AK there's a chance to fold in the upcoming streets, and KK may not push it to the edge itself.

 

[eetenor]

Hand1

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Chipleading the table with almost 100bbs. Not so much hand played on this one. UTG ( has a Micromillions badge and close to our stack) raises to 2.2bbs and 3 flats. We are the upcoming with QQ on BB.
UTG (villain): 31.490 (79bb)
UTG+1: 14.596 (36.5bb)
LJ: 8.756 (22bb)
HJ: 24.142 (60bb)
CO: 28.867 (72.2bb)
BTN: 15.767 (39.4bb)
SB: 16.506 (41.3bb)
BB (hero): 39.015 (97.5bb)
Pre-flop (1.080), Hero is BB
UTG bets 880 , UTG+1 calls 880, 2 players fold, CO calls 880, BTN calls 880, 1 player folds
BB 3-bets to 3440, UTG 4-bets to 9200, 3 players fold, BB calls 5760

Flop (21.720)
Hero bets 4500, UTG calls 4500

Turn (30.720)
Hero checks, UTG goes all-in 17.790, Hero calls 17.790

River (66.300)

Hero shows: Pair of Queens
Villain shows:


Wondering how you see this hand.
Can you see similarities maybe improvement on my latest QQ? : https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-hand-analysis-51/7-5-nl-he-mtt-511574/
What pieces of advice can you give me?



Hand2

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/6258GQlbJ

Still from the same 1.65$ Bounty game.
ˇˇˇ
We had around a top10 stack, and almost 100 left.
How would you play this line?



Thank you in advance for the feedbacks, as always

GL!

No results seen yet-stopping at each of your actions

Preflop Sizing needs to be larger we need to protect our hand here and hope to get one of the shorties to commit their stack for the bounty
A standard sizing is 4x OOP plus one more for each player so 4600 min and we can bet larger than that in these no-foldem tournies

When the UTG 4 bets we want to think about UTG ranges for 4 bets -we use standard ranges at first
AA KK QQ AK for value and then A5s A9s KTs QTs
Then decide if UTG will add other value hands JJ TT 99 or not have the bluffs-this dictates how we respond with QQ OOP this deep

In bounty tournament ranges are effected by who's bounty is on the line- The UTG in this spot should not be adding to the value range
and will call the bluffing range to trap bounties behind them. So by raising the UTG gets 2 bounties to fold and is head up vs you who would also not have a full range in this spot to keep the 2 bounties in by full range I mean fewer bluffs as our 3 bet range is very tight OOP at this stack depth

So the UTG range should be AA KK QQ AK-will it be in a micro who knows? If you think the range is much wider than that AQ AJ 99 88 KQs etc then we want to stack off preflop as we do not have clarity on boards we have an over pair on.

We call pre hoping the UTG has JJ TT 99 added to their range then lead the J95 flop? Would we not check JJ hoping they bet or check catch an A or K on turn?

If we lead flop we lead turn- to protect vs this very hand -AK and potential flush draws and you called it off anyway so why give a free card?
The advantage of playing in the micros ---we get value we should never get---AK is never a shove on this turn if UTG understood ranges

Nice win ---

 

[dallam]

Preflop:
With so many callers, you could even 3-bet a little higher also close to x4 is already a decent sizing IMO.

Flop:
Idk why you bet less than 25% of the pot? I'd bet something between 1/3 to 1/2 here.

Turn:
I might have fired again but check and evaluate is ok to me to.
His shove indicates a set which improved to a FH or maybe an overpair? Since you have the queens, he might have the kings? Or aces?
But ofc you still have to call here.

Now I'm curious to see what he got.

Spoiler: After checking

AK, haha. Stupid bluff which totally failed. 😅 I never understand why people bluff big in PKOs.

Well played!

Thanks. The pre-bet was 3.91bbs, I didn't want to go for a rounded number. Thankfully it was reduced to 1 player, however the kinda wrong one. Xd

On flop FH could be with JJ, he was putted in an uncomfortable spot as well cause the 3-way flat, but still see it as it is: AA, KK or AK cause the pure stack vs stack game. I did not want to show that much that I'm pot committed here, in my range there's some AQs or KQs 1010 or AJs (but I doubt it) hands so if I bet here and there's just a call its almost a free-street for us considering the seize of the pot already. However I did want to see KK raise here for protection, so this bet is eliminated the Kings, I saw it as it was, AA or AK and with that little committment and checking down the turn it actually worked and even AK found the path to go for the bluff.

I could show other numbers on the betting side, on flop I knew that there are dead A's and K's so after there was no 3-bet on the flop just a call, I wanted to be out bluffed, but I'm probably wrong in this thinking process, and maybe raise the turn just you mentioned. Somehow caught a bluff still.

On cash I would be all in preflop.
Preflop on MTT: I would flat as you after 4 bet.
Flop: bet more, 2/3 of pot on flop and would be considering folding after reraise if in stack preservation mode.
Turn: given the flop line, all in on turn instead of checking, his stack is covered in case of bad weather

Reasoning: this smells like teen..., I mean big pocket pair from beginning. Betting large on flop would give you information whether it's true. If AA and KK combos are eliminated from range, I would proceed to stack villain as fast as I can.

I agree, this smells like the 3 combinations people usually go for it: AA, KK, AK.
If you flat, and hitting a lower flop, why would you go for 2/3 of the pot? Opp showed big dominance pre, and you are first-to-act. So in my taste you should put here a blocker bet or check-raise. Another thing is that if you put here 2/3 bet, will you be able to fold to a shove, or are you supposed to?


Thanks for the inputs guys.

 

[eetenor]

Thanks. The pre-bet was 3.91bbs, I didn't want to go for a rounded number. Thankfully it was reduced to 1 player, however the kinda wrong one. Xd

On flop FH could be with JJ, he was putted in an uncomfortable spot as well cause the 3-way flat, but still see it as it is: AA, KK or AK cause the pure stack vs stack game. I did not want to show that much that I'm pot committed here, in my range there's some AQs or KQs 1010 or AJs (but I doubt it) hands so if I bet here and there's just a call its almost a free-street for us considering the seize of the pot already. However I did want to see KK raise here for protection, so this bet is eliminated the Kings, I saw it as it was, AA or AK and with that little committment and checking down the turn it actually worked and even AK found the path to go for the bluff.

I could show other numbers on the betting side, on flop I knew that there are dead A's and K's so after there was no 3-bet on the flop just a call, I wanted to be out bluffed, but I'm probably wrong in this thinking process, and maybe raise the turn just you mentioned. Somehow caught a bluff still.

I agree, this smells like the 3 combinations people usually go for it: AA, KK, AK.
If you flat, and hitting a lower flop, why would you go for 2/3 of the pot? Opp showed big dominance pre, and you are first-to-act. So in my taste you should put here a blocker bet or check-raise. Another thing is that if you put here 2/3 bet, will you be able to fold to a shove, or are you supposed to?


Thanks for the inputs guys.

It seems you are using single raise not 4 bet strategy lines in the thoughts above. why would we blocker bet into a 4 bet range?
UTG's SPR is less than 1 after your lead why would they shove KK for protection? Protection from what 4 bet range hand lead? Therefore why would we think they did not have it on turn? If the V has any skill they are shoving vs a lead on flop AK as well as AA KK because they are blocking AA KK in your hand. We never just shove value so AK becomes our bluffs vs a 4 bet range flat OOP
If the UTG has JJ 99 they would also call flop shove turn- at SPR 1

 

[300HPGOD]

Hand 1:
Pre: As said by others with this many in and QQ its an obvious raise but it needs to be larger. I would not go smaller than 5x here (4400) and I think it should be even a little bigger than that. Once we get 4 bet I am not loving it but I.m not going anywhere either so I would just flat as you did.

Flop: I dont like leading here and if I was going to lead it would be a bigger sizing than this. I think this is a much better check call than it is to lead but if you are targeting AK then okay... but it should be a larger lead sizing then so as played I really dont like it.

Turn: As played with us leading the flop Im not really sure what to do here since I wouldnt play it this way but my guess would be some lead again but to a larger sizing than what was used on flop. I like checking this street assuming we check called the flop. Bet made by villain would make me think but I really only think JJ is their range that I am really scared of (not sure if 99 4 bets there pre but its definitely possible) so this would be a check call for me as you did. I know they are going all in here and its a big part of our stack but with the price we are getting I think we fade the sets enough to make a call here. I discount KK and AA due to not being re raised on the flop when there were two spades out there.

Hand 2:
I do not like jamming this into the table as none of the QQ+ hands are folding. You might not get AK to fold either so the only better hand that folds is AQ and all the 1010 and lower pairs would just fold. I suck in spots like these but I just flat here and see what the original raiser does. If they 4 bet here then Im out with a snug fold pre and if they just call then Im mostly set mining but at least set mining with nice implied odds. We are 81 BBs here just jamming JJ into 3 players that have already shown strength (the overcaller is most likely capped but still) so I think we are setting ourselves up for failure here. Its a bounty yes but I think this is too big a risk even for the potential bounties imo.

 

[fundiver199]

hand1

Preflop
As others have said, your 3-bet is way to small with 3 field callers in the pot. You need to make it minimum 5.000 chips here to either thin the field or take it down preflop. UTG kind of bailed you out by 4-betting, because if he just call, then everyone else will call as well, as you are in a really bad spot with QQ. When he 4-bet, its for almost 1/3 of his stack, so its close to pot commitment but not quite. The other players fold, which is good, and now the decision is on you. And I think, this is a jam or fold spot.

Yes he can have AA or KK, in fact those hands are quite likely, when he open UTG and then 4-bet. But just calling does not solve that problem. You stacked off on the turn, and at this point he can still have AA or KK. Those hands did go away from his range, so you just delayed a difficult decision to later in the hand. Maybe calling would be fine, if you were in position, or if you had AA. But out of position with QQ, you are creating an environment, where postflop is going to be far more difficult for you, than it is for him.

If you had sized your 3-bet correctly and still got 4-bet, I think, this is actually a fold, since his 4-betting range should then mainly be AA or KK. However because you undersized your 3-bet, he does have more incentive to 4-bet to drive all the other players out. And for that reason, and because you can win his bounty, I think, QQ is good enough to close your eyes and get it in.

Flop
As played I dont see any reason for a donk bet. Your hand is basically a bluffcatcher in a 4-bet pot, since his range should not contain hands like AJ or KJ. He either have you beat, or he have nothing, and in such a situation you can check-call or check-fold, but there is no reason to bet.

Turn
You apparently realised your mistake, since you checked now, and having already put in half your stack, I would also not fold now. But to be honest, you will be beat here the majority of the time, so its more a pot odds type call than anything else.

Conclusion
Its cool, that you got him to make a mistake by stacking off AK on the turn as an ill-advised bluff. But he would likely also have stacked off preflop. Or if he fold, thats even better, since there was already 16k in the pot, and he only had 22k left.

 

[GarotoMaroto]

I believe i would bet big,something like pot, or 75%,and keep betting big turn preparing to shove river,i really dont know if is the best move but i would do that XD
But each game is diferent,and every oponent is a oponent,so you should use your infos of them to make the best profitable move in your own way
God bless

 

[D0nk3y Hunt3r]

If you flat, and hitting a lower flop, why would you go for 2/3 of the pot? Opp showed big dominance pre, and you are first-to-act. So in my taste you should put here a blocker bet or check-raise. Another thing is that if you put here 2/3 bet, will you be able to fold to a shove, or are you supposed to?

If you bet smaller and villain has strong hand he would want to extract much from you not showing strength (because usually small bet after such action indicates you didn't hit), so, he would be probably just calling with AA,KK and you wouldn't be able to make a proper read.
Betting large would provoke villain to go all in with strong hands, usually.
Of course all of this is based on many assumptions, as usual (does villain knows what he's doing?).

 

[PokerMaria]

Hand2

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/6258GQlbJ

Still from the same 1.65$ Bounty game.
ˇˇˇ
We had around a top10 stack, and almost 100 left.
How would you play this line?

hi dallam,

how i see on micro stakes:
usually, that nonsense miniraise after the openbet shows 2 possible things:
1., weak, loser players do it with pretty random hands just for testing the opener hand, how strong it is, and if they get just call(s) try to bluff and get fold on flop, turn, often even allin bluffs on river (sometimes annoying, but generally i like them)
2., what happened here, they do (not only weak players), because they want to indicate re-raise, preflop allins.
the miniraise guy worth a note.

anyway, so deep vs. bigger stack i'd just call and after i see the 2 allins easily fold. i guess you had a good run, getting QQ after JJ on BB, still in mind the previous one... hard to get rid of the "hothand" illusion, i have it, too, but it was a call/fold for me, if i am in normal mood.

also would size the bets differently in hand1 with QQ, no free, cheap flop, streets, if i think my hand is good enough. and i avoid hard situations when i have to decide on river, i call/fold allin when 40-50% of my stack is in the pot.
the basic point in poker: take the blinds and that's enough to win, so i don't mind if i get a walk, later street a fold. that's okay, too.