$1.10 NLHE MTT: two bad spots. How do we play them?

[BlueNowhere]

1st hand:

Raise pre so I have initiative and leaves me playing against a more defined range and I'll take pot away on most flops. I wouldn't mind limping and set mining but preffered raising. Could have raised to 200 but 150 achieves exactly same and I'm isolated against the weak player as I don't think he's folding when it's 100 to call. Obv the min raise sucks with 3 to the flop as it ruins my plan.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.1 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP (t4091)
Hero (CO) (t2975)
Button (t4375)
SB (t4768)
BB (t5331)
UTG (t4220)

Hero's M: 39.67

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9

, 9

UTG calls t50, 1 fold, Hero bets t150, Button raises to t250, 2 folds, UTG calls t200, Hero calls t100

Flop: (t825) Q

, 3

, 6

(3 players)
UTG bets t3900, Hero folds, 1 fold

Total pot: t825

Results:
UTG didn't show
Outcome: UTG won t825


2nd hand:

Another decent PP getting me into trouble. Fold? his range is weighted towards monsters. Sometimes he might have 99 or Ax but I'm getting 1.3/1and I need to be right 56.5% of the time and I jsut don't think I've got that. Obv can't punch numbers into equity calculator as his range is pretty weighted towards monsters.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.1 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t4241)
Hero (BB) (t2845)
UTG (t4035)
MP (t6733)
CO (t5391)
Button (t2515)

Hero's M: 31.61

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10

, 10

3 folds, Button calls t60, SB calls t30, Hero bets t300, Button raises to t2515 (All-In), 2 folds

Total pot: t660

Results:
Button didn't show
Outcome: Button won t660

 

[BlueNowhere]

Second hand I meant 43.5% not 56.5%

 

[Shufflin]

With those flop bets early in the tournament, I agree, you were best to cut your losses and fold. Is this the same villain both times, though? Perhaps his range isn't quite as monstrous as you thought? I'd definitely be eager to trap when the chance comes...

 

[BlueNowhere]

No. Villian 2 is one that I hadn't seen him make any moves and seemed to be a pretty simple player. Hadn't been raising much but limped a few pots, not taken this line befire. Villian 1 was just bad and loose and I thought on a dryish flop I can probably get him to stack off with rubbish to my overpair or if I flop overcards take the pot down anyway.

 

[BlueNowhere]

Also on the 2nd hand would anyone call with QQ? I'm think his range is ridiculousy weighted towards AA/KK. and are we only calling with KK/AA here?

 

[baudib1]

Hand 2 is a super easy call, IDK what the issue is. Your range for him is absurd. The most common hands for passive donks to limp-shove are small pairs.


Hand 1 is close, kind of puke folding somewhere I guess.

 

[Pascal-lf]

meh i call QQ in hand two but seems close with TT in a low stakes donkament, when they shove that much they tend to have it in my expereince

hand 1 just set mine pre and fold flop

 

[BlueNowhere]

Hand 2 is a super easy call, IDK what the issue is. Your range for him is absurd. The most common hands for passive donks to limp-shove are small pairs.


Hand 1 is close, kind of puke folding somewhere I guess.

IMO limp/shove is nearly always a monster, whether it's HU, 6-max or full ring. I just didn't think we had the equity required.

 

[baudib1]

Because you made your raise so big it greatly widens his limp-shove range. He has the perfect stack size to try to pull this off especially if you're only calling KK+. I mean if he has 88/AJ-type hands I strongly suspect he'll think his hand is good and be annoyed at your raise.

It also somewhat depends on our image but in general (99% of the time) TT in BB vs. BTN is the nuts regardless of action. If you're beat here it's a total shrug/cooler.

If he had limped UTG I could see a fold but the blinds are small enough that most people aren't going to fear not getting action from either blind for a standard raise (hence the main reason for limping/trapping) and he has no reason to suspect you'll try to make a move against his limp.

 

[BlueNowhere]

If I'm beat here I feel I'd only have myself to blame for calling a limp/shove with 1.3/1 odds.

I'd been pretty tight, in 40 hands I'd been to flop about 3 times so he has no reason to believe I'm weak here. Also I suspect limping was a monster because he was afraid of getting no action, if he raises to 180 he most likely sees folds.

I've just never seen anyone limp with 88/AJ or a hand like that.

 

[baudib1]

That's really bizarre because I've seen people limp anything from anywhere. I see people limp T2 UTG and AA in the SB vs. 4 limps. Maybe your poker experience is wildly different.

 

[BlueNowhere]

I didn't mean limp, obv I've seen people limp with 88/AJ. I meant limp/shove. It just felt almost exclusively to be AA/KK, it has been in my experience anyway. Interesting to see someone think it could be something we're good against.

 

[baudib1]

Imagine for some reason you had limped 99 on the button, say you misclicked, the SB completes and BB raises 6x with 55~ BBs behind. Would you call? I'd probably just stick it in, or fold if the BB were really tight.

I once raised AA UTG+1 vs. an UTG limper, he limp-shoved 90 BBs with 22 (for a cool story, he flopped quads).

 

[duggs]

I tend to look at their stats and position when unsure. if he is flatting much at all and isnt super tight i dont even consider the premiums. UTG or UTG+1 i see a bit of limping/shoving with AA/KK/QQ but on otherwise its usually suited connectors/small pocket pairs/suited weak aces that want to see a cheap flop.

 

[BlueNowhere]

Maybe I misjudeged and should've stuck it in then, just really didn't like the limp/shove and timebank folded.

 

[baudib1]

I think it's a standard calloff but it's hard to judge all of the meta/game flow considerations from a distance so going with your gut is fine. Trust the alarm bells when they go off.

For sure I think people limp-shove small-medium pairs a lot.